Episode Transcript

Julia Landauer 0:04 Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of if I'm honest with Julia Landauer, this week's guest is Francesca hoagie, who is a TED speaker, host of the dear Franny podcast, and an internationally recognized expert on dating relationships and human connection. She's the author of the forthcoming book How to find true love, unlock romantic flow and create lasting relationships. She's been featured in media outlets such as the Today Show Marie Claire, The New York Times, Harper's Bazaar, and the Huffington Post. She works with individuals and teams, and is the founder of the true love society, a community for those seeking deeper self and romantic love. Prior to her love career, Francesca was a corporate lawyer and competed on two seasons of the iconic reality show survivor, and that is how Francesca and I met. We were both on season 26 of Survivor, fans versus favorites caramel and island. It was a bit of a doozy for both of us for different reasons, and we'll talk about that both the majority of the time, talking about love. And Francesca is a romantic. I'm a romantic, and it was really cool to hear her story of how she went from pursuing her lawyer career, which is what she was educated in and what she was trained to do, and her big aha moment, and that journey of self discovery to realize her new calling, which was helping people find internal love and external love. We talk about the commodification of love in our culture and how it's pushed to be scarce when, in reality, love is an abundant resource. And I go through my results from taking her online dating archetype quiz, which you can also take on her website. And we also talk about the dating climate right now. You know, I found Ben, my husband, on dating app, and it was obviously different six years ago than it is now. But she gives us some really tactful advice for how to approach the apps and using them as a tool instead of something that you are hooked on. And all of this was so much fun. It's incredible to see how much heart and soul she pours into this and how much she wants to help people, and knows that everyone has the capacity for really deep, meaningful love. And I hope that this this episode is inspiring for you, and definitely reach out. I'll link all of her stuff in the description, and let's get into it. Francesca, thank you so much for joining me on if I'm honest with Julia Landauer, thank you for having me, Julia, it's good to see you. It's been years. It has been so long. So as I mentioned in the intro, Francesca and I met on survivor, and I think that the reunion so that would have been in 2013 2014 2013 2014 2013 would have been the last time that we saw each other in person. Oh, my goodness, 12 years ago, or 11 years, I don't know, 11, over a decade, and I recently went to my 10 year college reunion, and so that, like, for some reason that was hitting me, like, how am I old enough to be 10 years out of college? It's wild. I mean, I have a birthday in two days, and I'm like, I am half a century old. It's wild. Oh, you don't look at at all. And it is wild, though, in time. And you know, we can get into this a little bit later, but just it almost makes me sad a little bit, because, you like, I want to appreciate so many of the little things that are going on, but then you have real world stuff that you have to deal with. And I don't know, getting older is just so many, you get so many realizations, I guess, yeah, it's, it's non stop. I love it. I mean, I'm very much embraced aging. So I'm excited about it. I'm excited about turning 50. I'm, you know, I know, I know that I'm going to be really excited to turn 61 day. You know, if I hopefully I'll make it. Yeah, you know. But I think, you know,

Speaker 1 3:41 I think one, you know that expression youth is wasted on the young in the like, and when you're young, you hate that expression so much because you're like, you old people, like, you know, like, you're the ones who are wasting your life. Like, I got it all figured out, and I think about that now, how I'm like, Oh, wow, like I get it now. But I think that the world has changed so much, and the way that we live has changed so much that it's like it just does not mean the same thing to be 50 in 2024 that it meant in, you know, 1974 which is a year that I was born, right? Which was like 50 year olds in 1974 were old people, yeah,

Julia Landauer 4:23 oh, yeah. Totally, totally. And I think, you know, everything from, you know, discussions around wellness to staying more active to, I don't know, I feel like people diversify what they do a lot more now than they did back in the day. And I'm sure that that plays a part. But, but, yeah, I I was really excited to be in my 30s. Like, I like my 20s too. And I think because of pursuing racing, like, I had a very exciting and less stressful in some ways, 20s. But then when I got into my 30s, I was like, wow, hopefully I'm going to continue to give fewer shits because I'm who. Bit of a people pleaser. And, you know, I'm fairly confrontation averse, but you just you shed some of the bullshit, basically as you get older. And that's been really liberating and satisfying.

Speaker 1 5:12 Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. I remember waking up on my 40th birthday, and I was like, like, I thought the 30s were hard. I thought the 30s were hard. I feel for people in their 30s, because I do think there is, like, you know, you can clearly see how you've grown since your 20s, but you're also still like, I don't feel like an adult. It's

Julia Landauer 5:33 wild how much I don't feel like an adult. Like, I feel like an 18 year old. Yeah,

Speaker 1 5:37 exactly. So it's like, I feel like like a teenager playing grown up. I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing with my life. Like, I feel like the 30s. For me, the 30s were pretty, like, existential and I, like, when I woke up on my 40th birthday, I just felt this sense of relief. Like, like, Oh my God. Like, I am, like, out of fucks to give good. And I'm like, Oh my God. Like, I've wasted a lot of time being really hung up on a lot of things that I just suddenly like, Dude, it was like, somebody flipped a switch.

Julia Landauer 6:14 That's so powerful, though. And it's like, cool that it's that sudden to be able to have such, like, a dramatic mindset shift. Kind of it was dramatic,

Speaker 1 6:22 yeah, and so and so I got so excited, because I was like, Oh my God, if this is how I feel turning 40, like, imagine what I'm going to feel like turning 50. So I've literally been looking forward to this for 10 years.

Julia Landauer 6:33 Oh well, I'm so glad that you're here. Have the best time celebrating this milestone, because that is so so cool, and we'll pour one out for you tonight. And please do you bet so for our listeners, Francesca and I met on survivor, as I mentioned, and I

Speaker 1 6:53 think we actually met after survivor, really neat on the show

Julia Landauer 7:00 after we were voted out back story. So for those of you who are not familiar with survivor, you start off on tribes, and you're the tribes are isolated from each other, except throughout the challenges, and then you merge, and then everyone's together. So friendships and I both got voted out before the merge. So it was we didn't meet on the show. You're totally right. And I think it's fair to say that survivor was a character building experience for both of us, for different reasons. For me, as I got eviscerated by the eventual winner, john cochran on the episode, I was voted out for how boring I was, and that was lasting impression, minimal air time. I was probably somewhat standoffish. I knew that I was being a little more quiet because of some of my strategy plays, but also I was, like, a 20 year old girl, basically, that was, like, first time, couldn't trust anyone. So it was, it was a character building experience for me, it's young to play that game, yeah. And I, like, hadn't been, hadn't been in a position where I couldn't trust anyone. And I also, I look back now. I'm like, like, I really would want to play again. I've applied several times to try to play again, and then I watch it, and I'm like, I'm just not sure I have it in me to be as deceptive as you need to be, and to be like, totally for yourself in a lot of ways. Like, I think I could do 30 something year old Julia would do a lot better than 20 year old Julia, but know that I necessarily would be like an iconic survivor player, even if I could do it again, yeah,

Speaker 1 8:26 yeah. I think, yeah. I don't know. I don't know about me like, I think, I mean, I fundamentally feel like I'm, I'm, I think there's a universe where I could totally win survivor, but I think there are more universes where I would continue to be the first person voted

Julia Landauer 8:44 out. So can you explain why? In more detail, survivor was character building for you.

Speaker 1 8:49 Um, I mean, it was character building for me. Because I, you know, what's the thing that everybody dreads going on a reality show? Like, you just don't want to be the first person off, like, that's like, that's like, the worst thing that can happen, right, right? And so on my first season, that's what happened. And then on my second season, which is the season that you and I were on Julia that season, I was like, oh, there's no way this is going to happen, because it was such a fluke, it happened the first time, and this time, like, I'm playing with people who I actually, like, I knew, like, you know, like Cochrane and I used to be, like, like, close friends. Like, we used to talk on the phone all the time. He, I was like, you know, his coach, basically, you know, like, Andrea and I, like, used to be friends. Like, she's, like, spent the night at my house, you know, like, so I'm so in my mind, I'm like, you know, why wouldn't like, we're friends? Like, why? Like, of course, you're gonna align with your friends. But anyway, that didn't happen. So I got voted out again, first, oh yeah, my second season. So, I mean, like. Yeah, the good news is,

Unknown Speaker 10:03 you pointed.

Speaker 1 10:05 I'm legendary for being bad at Survivor, right? Like, I'm the biggest survivor loser of all time, and that's kind of a badge of honor, but, yeah, I mean, it's character building to find yourself in that situation. And I was in my 30s at the time, and I was like, very much figuring out, like, you know, I was, I was a lawyer, because that was my previous career. And I was like, I don't want to be a lawyer forever, but I felt really stuck because I just didn't know what else to do and and so that was the whole reason that I even went on survivor. Because I was like, this opportunity presented itself, and I'm like, Well, you know, I need to shake things up in my life. And like, so maybe this will be the thing. So I guess it's a case of, like, asking what you wish for, careful, right? Like, what do you wish for? Because, you know, it shook things up, not in a way, but yeah, but that's our season, you know, after that, I was like, I mean, I was pissed after my first season, but I was really pissed after the second.

Julia Landauer 11:08 I can imagine, I can imagine, and also, I also will forever be bitter that my one season was fans versus favorites. I think it's so inherently unfair. But something I didn't think about until just now was that you probably got equally screwed in that because, you know your your tribe lost the first challenge, which was the only challenge that I was there to see us win, because we lost everything else. But so there's just so little context about who you were, and maybe if you had been on a tribe full of newbies, maybe it would have been different, but because there was so little for the favorite tribe to work off of, I only just thought about that.

Speaker 1 11:52 Yeah. I mean, that's not what, why I got voted out first. Like, I don't think, I mean, I think it wasn't like they didn't know me well enough. I think they actually knew me really well. And

Julia Landauer 12:05 I take back what I said.

Speaker 1 12:09 Yeah, I mean, I think I honestly am not totally clear on this, because, you know, I never watched the show, so I don't know what happened. I don't know what was shown. I only know what I've heard from other people. And apparently, like, that was a plan from before we even got to the Philippines, like, I was always going to be first, geez. So yeah, oh, wow,

Julia Landauer 12:33 on to bigger and better things.

Speaker 1 12:35 So I know because, like, like, for me, I mean, that's, I'm so sorry that you had such a sucky experience, you know, like, it's, yeah, and you, like you, you're you guys were screwed, like you were definitely at a disadvantage. I mean, I understand why they wanted to do fans versus favorites, because it was so successful the first time they did it, but I just don't think they just didn't cast the right people. Yeah, I just don't think I anyway, but, but, but I also, if I had say I was the third person voted out of my second season. Like, I mean, that would have been super anticlimactic, too. Like,

Julia Landauer 13:14 there's certain pizzazz to your legendary, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 13:18 performances, exactly. So, you know,

Julia Landauer 13:21 that's a beautiful way to look at it. I love the positivity and the optimism. I support that 100% Thank you. So what you mentioned that you can I knew you from the context of being a lawyer as well. And so can you explain how, how you make the transition from lawyer to matchmaker and love professional, which I think is so beautiful, and I'm so excited to get into that. And like, if, if the experience on survivor was at all involved in that career shift, yeah,

Speaker 1 13:54 it was involved in the sense that. And I think this is, this is another, you know, be careful what you wish for situation. Because I wanted, I wanted to shake things up. And I wanted to, like, you know, figure out this new path for myself. And so after, after our season, you know, really having to confront, like, Okay, I've now done this crazy thing twice. Like, yeah. Like, like, now, like, now, this is a pattern, right? So, like, what am I meant to learn from this? Like, and, and I think I it took me maybe a while to learn all of the lessons from it. But what was clear right away was like, This is my life, and I need to change the narrative, because right now I'm just like this. Like, this cannot be my story. Like, lawyer, visceral, yeah, love being a lawyer. And then, like, had this, like, now I'm, I'm like, quote, famous for, like, being a loser, like this. I was like, this is not, this is not my legacy. This is not my legacy. Seriously, I was like, This is not my legacy. And then also. So, you know, another thing that happened a few, a few months after our season aired was my brother, my older brother, who was 39 at the time he it was just before his 40th birthday, he died suddenly. And so it was just this like, sense of like, I mean, of course, we all know that anyone can die, you know, like, you can die anytime. And, you know, like, I lost my dad, but he had been sick, and so we had time to, like, wrap our heads around the fact that he was passing. But with my brother, it was just sudden. And so thank you, but it definitely left me with just like, Okay, I'm I don't know what it is that I'm meant to do, but I'm sick of not knowing. So like, I'm fine. I'm going to find out. And, you know, and I just started getting really clear on, like, Okay, well, what are the elements that I do know? Like, I know I want to work with people. I know that I want to help people do something that's really important to their lives. I know that I, you know, I don't want to be sitting in an office every day. I mean, I was like, going from like, the practical to the, you know, the more like purpose driven and and so I had kind of realized that I would probably be some sort of coach, but I didn't really know what that was. You know, what I kind of, like, knew well enough to coach anyone on right, like,

Julia Landauer 16:18 what am I an expert at? What can I, yeah, like, I

Speaker 1 16:20 was like, I'm gonna be like, I'm like, a life coach. Be like, who would listen to you? So, you know, but I felt like I wanted to perform some kind of service, and I didn't know what that what that service could look like. So anyway, I wound up because, as you know, I'm, you know, I this has happened to me many times, and I'm a big believer, like, when you ask the universe for information, like you're going to start to get it. And I wound up going to this Fourth of July barbecue, and I was speaking to a woman there. Never spoke to her before or since, but she just mentioned that she followed this black male matchmaker on Twitter. And I was like, there's a black male matchmaker. Like, who were you talking about, you know, right? And excuse me, his name was Paul Brunson. Is still Paul Brunson, and I started following him. And he had been an investment banker, like, he had an MBA, and he left to, like, start this matchmaking agency. So I kind of like, you know, could relate to him as somebody who had, like, walked away from a like, professional path and a particular professional path, and he I liked what he had to say. And one day he tweeted that he was going to be speaking at the matchmaking Institute conference. And I was like, there's a matchmaking Institute and conferences like what and and I literally responded to his tweet, and I was like, I want to come. And he said, You should come. And I went, and I met all these people who were just regular people whose job it was to help people find love. And I was like, um, wait, I can, like, what's more important to people's lives than love and and, you know, as as life has it, like this big breadcrumb that had been sitting in front of my face the whole time that I hadn't seen was the fact that I had been blogging about dating for like, three years that

Julia Landauer 18:13 was just going on the whole time Writing specifically about love for years.

Speaker 1 18:20 Yeah, wow. Like, like, before I ever went on survivor, I had already started blogging about dating, huh? And, and, and it was like, because a friend of mine had a blog, and she had invited me to be a contributor to the blog, and she was like, she's like, Oh, maybe you can write about the law, whatever. And I was like, I am not writing about the law, like in my free time, you know, right? And she's and she and she said, and actually, this is always a question that I ask people, because this when, who, when they're struggling to figure out, like, what is it that they want to do? Because, you know, obviously it's a common question, yeah. And so, and I was like, I don't want to write about the law. And she said, Well, you can write about whatever you want. And I was like, hmm, so this is the question people can ask themselves, like, Okay, if somebody were to present you with an opportunity like this, right? Like, and it's whatever you want, whatever you want, you get to write about, you get to talk about, like, what would that be? And, and I said, Well, the only thing I could think of is dating. Because, you know, I had had a very long, winding dating journey, and it's something that I had been very focused on in my life, and I had I learned a lot of lessons that I could see like other people were struggling with. And so I was like, Sure, I'll start. So I started this dating advice blog, and but still, I'm like, What am I going to do with my life? What am I going to do with my life? And I never, it never once occurred to me, like, oh, maybe there's something here. Yeah, even though I enjoyed it, even though people were, like, taking my advice, and like, you know, so it's anyway, blinders are a real well.

Julia Landauer 19:49 You get in the weeds and like, deeply in your own head about things, and then sometimes it just like, it's hard to even get that 30,000 foot view without someone or something else's intervention. Yeah,

Speaker 1 20:00 yeah, exactly. And so I, I so when I saw so, I was like, wait, I care about love. I know a lot about love, like, yeah, and this checks a lot of boxes. So I Yeah, so I went for it. So that was literally, you know, like, I decided that day to sign up for my matchmaking certification. So I went to matchmaking school.

Julia Landauer 20:22 That's amazing. And how long have a matchmaking school? What does it look like?

Speaker 1 20:29 I think we had, like, maybe five sessions, and it's a lot and a lot of homework, and then you have to write, write a business plan at the end of it. That's kind of like the big project,

Julia Landauer 20:41 that's an amazing project, like, that's such a good like thing to have as you're like, embarking on this new career?

Speaker 1 20:47 Yeah, no, it's actually really important, because you have to think through so many things, like, what is your model going to be like? So for instance, like some matchmakers, they only match client to client. And, you know, some matchmakers only match a client to a pre selected pool of people. Some matchmakers are just like, Okay, I'm your matchmaker, I'm your agent. I'm going to go out in the world and just find people where I can find them, you know. Like, you know, and it's just what's the demographic that you match and what's the location? And, like, there's just all these different things that you need to figure out and like, how are you What's your theory of compatibility, and how are you going to get the word like it was so it makes you think through a lot of things. So it was super helpful, super helpful. And then I went on Facebook and I was like, Hey guys, I'm a matchmaker. Now, send me your singles.

Julia Landauer 21:39 Yeah, oh, my god, that's amazing. That is amazing.

Speaker 1 21:43 And that is literally that Facebook post is how I got my first client.

Julia Landauer 21:47 No way, yes. Who did it? I mean, if you can without identifying, but like, who did it come from? Was a friend.

Speaker 1 21:53 It wound up being a friend of a friend. So it was a friend who saw my post and forwarded it to another friend of hers who was single and happened to be looking for a matchmaker, and she hired me. She was my first client.

Julia Landauer 22:06 That is so cool, Jessica, I want to hear more about this. I have so many follow up questions. We're going to take a quick break, but we will be right back with Francesca Hoag on if I'm honest with Julia Landauer, you

we are back on, if I'm honest with Julia Landau, we're with Francesca hoagie, and you got your first client from your first Facebook post. And that is so cool. And I want to get into some of the more nitty gritty business aspects of it, but first, I want to ask you about something you referenced on your website, which says that you've had a long term fascination with falling in love, yeah. Can you elaborate on what that fascination was?

Speaker 1 22:50 Yeah? You know, I was a romantic child, and I was someone who I was reading, like Jane Austen and like the Bronte sisters, and also like Danielle Steele and like Sydney Sheldon, like trashy novels and like, but I was so from a young age, I was just so, like, enthralled with romance. And just like, I was like, Oh, I just want to grow up and, like, have passionate love affairs, and like, travel the world and like, it was so, like, that was just so, always, so enthralling to me and and, you know, it's always, it's funny, because we're so into what we're into, and we're so in our own heads that I just kind of thought everyone was that interested in love, you know, yeah, and, but I, but then I kind of came to realize as like, Girl, there's like, not everybody thinks about this as much as I think, but I was definitely like, I was even from, I'd say probably Junior High was when I was like, if a friend of mine, likes, like, liked a Boy, I'm like, Okay, we gotta make this happen. Like, I was like, I've always, I've always been just like, meddling in people's love lives and thinking and noticing and looking at relationships and and my father, for my father, had been married. My father had actually been married three times before he married my mom, and it was definitely a fourth time to charm situation, because they were, like, meant to be together. But he would talk to me about relationships, and he would talk to me, he would say, like, you know, the importance of choosing someone who had good character. And you know, he would literally point out other couples that were in our lives, and you'd be like, you know, you see how you know they respect each other, or you see how they don't respect each other, you know, like, so he was so, I think the combination of, like, my dad, who was so, like, determined to, like, pass on these, like, these lessons that he had learned so I didn't have to make the same mistakes he made, right? And. And me just being this, like, child who, like, I never, and, I mean, you probably grew up, like, loving racing and cars, right? Like, right, I would imagine, because, and, and I and so, I mean, did you when you were like, a little girl? Were you like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a race car driver

Julia Landauer 25:18 by the time I was 12? Yeah, when I had gotten into, okay, go karting, yeah,

Speaker 1 25:22 yeah, so you knew, Okay, yeah, so I was, like, I was so envious of people like

Julia Landauer 25:27 you, yeah, no, I've heard that before, yeah.

Speaker 1 25:31 Because, like, it was like, in terms of, like, what my life looked like, it was like a total, just a black box, like, just a total, like, blank slate, like, I have no idea, but the only thing that I ever really knew that I wanted was like, to have, like, deep romantic love and but it was all but it was never like, because, I think because of my dad, I was never like, I need to just like I didn't want to, just like, fall in love and get married. Like, I wanted to, like, you know what I mean? Like, the whole, I wanted the whole process. And I never, like, and I actually was never focused on getting married. I never dreamt, even though I was very romantic and I dreamt of the relationship, I never dreamt of a wedding. I never cared about that. I just wanted the relationship. Yeah,

Julia Landauer 26:19 substance behind it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 26:23 Um, so, you know, so fast forward to now. It all is like, Oh, yeah. Like, this all makes perfect sense. Yeah,

Julia Landauer 26:30 that it happened. Well, that must have been so fun to, like, look back and realize, like you said, you like, we're meddling in your friends love lives and like, it's like, oh, this calling was, like, in the interview the whole time. Life is so weird. So when you when you like, took your matchmaking course and were in that phase of of getting to where you are now, what was your romantic situation at that time? So

Speaker 1 26:54 at that time, so when I first, first started matchmaking school and launched my business, I was in a relationship. I wasn't like, necessarily, like, this is the person I'm going to be with forever, but, but I was committed. I was in it, you know? And actually, it's funny because, and this is also for people who feel like maybe you have a crazy idea of something you want to do, it seems crazy, but me, it's probably not crazy something you want to do. And but a lot of what we worry about is like, well, what are other people going to think? Or, you know, whatever. And I, and I had a friend of mine, who's a dear friend of mine, actually call me up when I made this announcement about, Hey guys, I'm a matchmaker now, and she was like, you know, are you sure this is a good idea? Because it's not like, you know, you're like, you know, married to, you know, like, she was like, she was like, basically saying, like, do you actually like,

Julia Landauer 27:54 are you credible enough to are you credible to do this? Yeah,

Speaker 1 27:57 and, and I was like, and I totally understood where she was coming from. And I was like, listen, I get it, and I understand that you're saying this out of concern for me, but like, don't worry. Yeah, it's gonna be fine, yeah, but, but I do think that something that I that my situation at that time, did cause me to do, which I think is actually good and healthy is not make what I was teaching other people about me. Mm, hmm, right. Because there are a lot of like, matchmakers and coaches who are like, look at my amazing partner. And like, I found my prince charming, and I'm going to help you find your Prince Charming too. And I understand why that marketing is effective for some people. But I just never, I was like, I don't, like, I don't, what do you and your husband have to do with me? You know, like, it just like to me, I was like, you know, like, yeah, you know, especially like, as dating has been changing and, you know, like, I started at the start of, like, Tinder and all of this, and I'm like, I'm sorry if you've been married to your husband for 20 years and you guys went to college together. Like, that's great. Like, that's a different world.

Julia Landauer 29:07 You have no idea the landscape right now. Like, yeah, you

Speaker 1 29:11 have no idea what it's like out there. Things are different. Like, culture has changed so much. Like, our expectations of romantic relationships have changed so much, and so, yeah, they're fundamental things that about, you know, character and values and like, you know, intimacy and you know how to foster that over I mean, there's fundamental aspects of, like being in a relationship remain, but the whole, like, courtship process and meeting people and Just the way that we connect as humans has changed so much, and so it actually forced me to be very focused on, like, how, what? How can I help as many people as possible have the relationship and have the love that they want, not like? What? What I'm going to teach people to do, what I did do, you know what I mean? So I had a different approach, like, I think, from the beginning, which has been, now really helpful. And now it's like, kind of why I am where I am now in my career, because I am not that kind of very tactical coach who's like, you know, oh, just like, say these five things and learn this exact way. And, you know, like, because those days are over, like, dating can't be hacked, like, it's time to go to a higher level, a deeper level, and, and that's just something that I've been focused on from the beginning, which

Julia Landauer 30:36 I think is, yeah, which I think is so great, because I'd love your thoughts on this, because so my sister, brother and I talk every week. We have a FaceTime every week. And at one point over the last, you know, handful of years, one of one of them was giving dating advice to the other. And I remember hearing dating advice thinking, that is not what I would do, like that that feels like, not the right dating advice, not for substantial stuff, but like how you respond to things, or when you respond like stuff like that. And I realized kind of in that discussion, it was like, giving people dating advice seems like maybe not the best use of time, like, from the specific tactical things, because what you might need or want in a relationship is going to be different than what I might need or want, and I might not care if I am overzealous in my texting, because, guess what, I wear my heart on my fucking sleeve all the time, and so if I try to hide that, it's going to be a surprise later on. So I just had this aha moment like, Why have I ever given anyone dating advice? Because, but at the same time, there's like, red flags that I think are universal, that you should probably be aware of, right? Or, like, some, like, more substantial stuff like that. But like, the tactical dating advice feels like it's not effective because everyone is different and needs different things.

Speaker 1 31:53 Yes, so well said. And I couldn't agree more. And, yeah, it's like, it's not one size fits all. I mean, I have, I mean, I'm not, like, really trying to plug myself right now, but I do, but it's relevant to this is just that, like, like, I created these four dating archetypes because I realized, after like, years of doing this work, and like, working with so many people, it's like people are at different phases of their dating journey. Like we're all on a lifelong love Journey. It has different chapters. Sometimes you're in a relationship with another person, sometimes you're in a relationship with yourself, sometimes you're actively dating, but it's all the same journey, but particularly in this dating phase, like, you know, like you said, Some people need different things. Like, if you're a person who hasn't been on a date in five years and you've been avoiding dating and you're super uncomfortable receiving romantic attention, like, guess what? Like, you have a different immediate love assignment than somebody who they're, you know, maybe they are somebody who goes from relationships and they haven't been single since they were 16, and, you know, versus somebody who has been dating non stop, but you know, no matter how many people they meet, they just have this pattern that they can't break, and they just can't actually get, you know. So it's like these, these people, are not dealing with the same primary issues. So the idea that you can just imprint, right, and just give all of these people five steps and like, they're gonna magically find love? Is like, ridiculous, yeah,

Julia Landauer 33:25 so you mentioned your dating archetypes, and I decided to go in and take the dating archetype quiz. Now obviously had to kind of I put myself in the position when I was single, or, like, right before I met my now husband, and I, I don't know if you can guess what people would be, but I guess it's different, because it's like a different mindset. But are you a sailor? I was a sailor, yeah, yeah. You got big sailor energy, and if I felt like it hit, do you mind if I share like, what? Yeah, yeah. So I'm a sailor for everyone. And this is on Francesca hoagies website, which I'll link in the description. But as a sailor, I am thoughtful and wise. Thank you very much, resilient and self aware, loyal and dedicated to their commitments, which I think fits me to a T across the board for for my life. But it was really fun to read through. And like, you know, 22 year old Julia was not a sailor, and you know, it says I thought it was a really nice way to break down, kind of how the lens with which you would look through dating, because I put myself back to 2018 when I was last single, single, and like, yeah, that's what it fit like I was, I was ready for that. So I thought it was really cool. And I highly recommend everyone else go check that out. Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah, and like it forces you to think about, I don't know, just kind of where you are, and what's hopefully, a more objective perspective, because self awareness is so hard, and we're asking ourselves to be objective about a very subjective thing. So how did you think to. Develop that type of breakdown as to the type of what, where you are in your dating journey and your archetype.

Speaker 1 35:08 You know, it was honestly like an aha moment. It was, I totally even remember it like I was in my my little bungalow at Echo Park in LA and I was just because I was just thinking, I think I had had a, maybe a client session, something that had been triggered, like, really, something that had triggered me really focusing on the fact that, like, wow, like, I really have gotten to the point where I can put people in these buckets. Like, I could talk to people for 10 minutes about their dating life and be like, Oh, I know what they're like, not saying I know everything about them, but I can, I can feel, I can see what their primary that the primary issue is that they need to deal with right now, to, like, get past this, you know, where they are right now. And that just kind of made me realize that's okay there, because there's definitely the people who avoid it, you know what, altogether, yeah, and then they're the people who are stuck in a pattern that they can't break, and and I was like, yeah, like, there are loopers. And then once I said, like, avoider and looper, then it all kind of just, it all just kind of down, yeah, that's

Julia Landauer 36:13 so cool. But, and it's, I think again, like we can get in the weeds in our own lives, and so being able to have kind of that external perspective of who we are is helpful.

Unknown Speaker 36:24 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Well, I

Julia Landauer 36:26 want to jump into something else that I review, because it's just so great. You are. You are a TED speaker, not just a TEDx speaker. You are a head speaker, which is very exciting. And I watched your talk and you, for those of you haven't, again, I'll link it in the description, but you talk about the commodity. Talk about the commodification of love and kind of the fantasy of happily ever after. And I loved the call out that you said that society wants us to feel that love is scarce when it's actually abundant. And can you dive into that realization? Because I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I think scarcity mindsets like such a damaging thing that's so prevalent in our culture, especially for women, for everyone, but particularly for women in love, in jobs, in family, like all that stuff. So can you Yeah, go into that a little bit, yeah.

Speaker 1 37:16 So, you know, I, you know, kind of another download that I had was, like, really thinking of this, as I call it, in my talk, like this fairy tale industrial complex, like this, all of these different industries and systems that really benefit from us being, especially women, being in this mindset of, like, as long as I get a man to choose me, then, like, that's, that's the goal, that's, then I'll then I'll live happily ever after, then I'll be good enough, and all of these things. And that's incredibly harmful to us, because it takes now, first of all, like, our worthiness and our agency, and it places it in the hands of someone else to, like, complete, complete us, which we don't need completing So, so what I talk about that I want people to understand, like the actual power of love, and what love really is, and how love is so much more than being chosen by someone. It's more, so much more than a you know, it's diamond rings are beautiful. But like, you know, there are people who literally make decisions about who they're going to spend their lives with based on the ring that they buy, right? And there are people who literally don't propose marriage to people that they want to be with because they can't afford to buy a diamond ring, right? And the whole tradition of a diamond ring was a marketing campaign that De Beers did in 1948 because people didn't buy diamonds, because diamond engagement rings weren't a thing. And De Beers was like, how are we going to sell all these diamonds? Because they have, like, massive stockpiles of diamonds sitting in, you know, underground in South Africa. And because diamonds aren't rare, actually, right? And so if all the diamonds that De Beers had stockpiled were to enter the market, we'd be buying diamonds at the gas station. Holy. So, so they didn't, so they didn't have, so they couldn't just say, this is a rare, you know, like, this is a that they had to make a story to sell diamonds. And so the story that they made was that a diamond is a symbol of love, and that the more you love, right, the more special, like, the bigger the diamond, the more expensive the diamond, and all of these things about, like, the diamond should be three months salary, like De Beers made that like it's all like it was all literally just a marketing campaign that people in people have, like, embraced as values, yes, reality as the prerequisite for, you know, being in partnership with someone, right? And so, again, I'm not knocking diamonds, but at least know what you're. Or understand, and it's

Julia Landauer 40:02 some I'm going to interject real quick, because it's so interesting, because my husband's French and so ring culture in Europe is so different. And I really, and, look, I'm a shallow bitty, like, I wanted a certain kind of ring. Like, I will really admit that, but partially because that's, like, you know, that's what we're raised with. But I remember, like, seeing women from really affluent family, families in Europe with really smaller rings. I'm not like, not in a judgment call, but like, the culture was so different than what I was raised with and what you were raised with. And I just remember it was kind of like this wake up call, like, oh my goodness, we are so shallow and but, yeah, I mean, we are a culture that commodifies almost everything, and capitalism that's just that's, again, not good, not bad, but what it is, and it really, especially, I'm seeing the disappointing nature of that when it relates to love, which, to your point, is so much deeper than that.

Speaker 1 40:59 Yeah, it's so much cheaper than that. And, and love is something that we all have in we have an unlimited reserve and continually regenerating reserve of love with within us. And, and we all know that because we never worry about running out of love. Yeah, right. Like no one's ever been like, oh, wait, I can't like love. I can't love this person this much, because I what. I have to hold on to the love I have, because what if I need it for someone else? Right? Like, we all, we so we all, I think, intuitively understand that love is abundant. Because, yeah, if we all, if we all have this infinite reserve of love within us, then it's actually like the most abundant thing, much less, yeah,

Julia Landauer 41:49 yeah, right. It's like one of the few truly abundant resources in the world.

Speaker 1 41:54 Yeah. I mean, what's more? What is actually more abundant than love? So yeah, right, yeah. And, you know, so love, yes, it is an emotion that we feel, but it's also something that we do, and it's something it's an energy. And, you know, like loving your neighbor doesn't mean you have to fall in love with them. It means you just treat them with respect and kindness. And you know what I mean? Like, it's like, like, that's love. Yeah, right. And so I and so I think once you understand the true nature of love, and you're able to really just if you decide, like, if someone says to me, okay, I want to be with somebody. And people have said things like this. To me, many times I want to be with somebody who's, you know, at least six foot two has at least $150,000 cash savings on hand has, you know, makes at least $250,000 a year. Like, okay, that's fine, you know. But also, like, what do you actually want your relationship to be like with that person? Yeah, like, like, what do you want to feel like? Because you're using these ideas of compatibility as a proxy for like, love, yeah? So actually, because you already know what your preferences are, so you don't need to be so focused on them, you actually need to figure out what it is that you actually want to experience and CO create with another person. And you might be what's going to carry you. Like, you need that to carry that's what you need to carry you, right? And that's like, so I get frustrated when people are I'm like, You have to really stop and, like, take, actually take love more seriously then this, like, very, really shallow, capitalistic notion of love, like, as long as you, I mean, I don't know, like, do you? Do you? Have you ever watched love? Is blind a little bit, yeah, okay, yeah. I can't watch it totally, because it, like, makes me crazy. I'm not, like, I don't generally watch dating shows. This feeling

Julia Landauer 44:03 that's me with racing shows.

Speaker 1 44:07 You know, it's like, I'm like, I yeah, I can't, I can't watch The Bachelor. I can't, none of that. But, but I, but love is blind. Is interesting from a sociological perspective to me and but it's also so fascinating to me how like these people are so quick to just like, fall into every trope of romance and just like and just declare after like, you know, a few dates, how like, I'm going to love you forever. I'm going to protect you forever. You're never going to, you know, you're you're never going to be lonely again. You're never and I'm just like, and, you know, and the music is playing like it's this big romantic moment. And I'm like, This is not how love works, people, this is not how love works, you know, yeah, um, but that fantasy is so seductive and, but. It keeps a lot of people actually, paradoxically, it actually keeps them further away from the love that they want, because they're approaching it from the outside in, and they're not understanding that it's actually an inside job. And so when you approach it from the inside out, then you actually can guarantee that you get the love that you want, versus it being a crap shoot. And like, you know, we'll see Yeah,

Julia Landauer 45:26 and that requires, like, intuition and self awareness and also, like, deep work on yourself to your point that yeah is critical that I think isn't emphasized enough in like, the average person's upbringing and self discovery. Yeah, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with Francesca. We're

back with Francesca, if I'm honest with Julia Landauer, so we were just talking about, you know, discovering and showing love from the inside out. Have you noticed any difference with clients who have children versus those who don't, who are on their dating journey? If you've had that distinction of clients,

Speaker 1 46:11 I have and I actually like working with parents, because it actually makes things it makes, it makes things easier in two ways. It makes things easier for them to, like, prioritize what really matters. Um, yeah, because, you know, especially like they just, they just don't have the time, like they don't have the time, you know, to to waste just dating people who are far from what they actually are seeking. I think being a parent and looking for a partner, you know that like this is somebody who's going to be in your child's life, and so sometimes that is that helps people to hold a higher standard for their relationship than they would, maybe for themselves, because it's because, and this is the other reason that I that I like working with parents, is because there's so many moments where, where, if I shift the question to applying to their child, or what their expectation would be for their child, or whether or not their child deserves that or is worthy of This, then they're able to say, like, Oh, my God, of course, like, my child deserve, you know, of course, your child was born worthy, right? It's like, Yeah, well, if your child was born worthy, perhaps you were as well,

Julia Landauer 47:31 right? Yeah, connect us, not sometimes. Perhaps that's

Speaker 1 47:35 just how life works, right? Like, when your child was born, you weren't like, Okay, we need to wait and see how this one turns out before we're going to love them, right, or treat them with kindness or care or respect or want good things for them, right? Yeah. And so I think that perspective is can be really, really helpful that that parents can, I mean, you don't have, I'm not a parent like you don't have to be a parent to be able to like, you know, relate to the fact that like children are born worthy, but I, but I have seen it in real life with real people, it actually be really helpful for them to like, unlock a deeper level of understanding about love.

Julia Landauer 48:16 Yeah, no. I mean, that makes total sense. And do you? Do you see that kind of difference between non parents and parents has the same kind of jump from men versus women? Is it? Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 48:32 Um, I don't. I think that, though, that not exactly with with men versus women. I would say this is interesting, and I might get in trouble for saying this, but this is just the reality of, like, the men that I've worked with, they tend to be, I think, first of all, for a man to, like, actually say, like, I'm gonna hire a coach to help me with love, like he's committed. Yeah, he's like, committed. And so it's a big step. It's a big step. And so, and it's such a big step that, like, they don't need, like, like, I can, like, they'll just like, we can have one conversation about something, and they'd be like, Wow, you're right. That's, I never thought about it that way. That's a really good point. Yeah, I'm gonna stop doing this. I'm gonna start doing that. And then they actually they actually do it. Whereas with women, it tends to be more of a there's it, can it, can be. It tends to be more of a process, right? For them to, like, just jump into action. But I think it's because women have so much more programming, yeah, around romantic love that is disempowering, yeah? So we have, like, kind of an extra layer to unpack and to unravel, and, and, and so, you know, and for some other reasons as well. So I'm not saying this to knock women at all, of course, and I think. Also, even just the fact that women tend to be very well more so than the average man, I think, just basically due to socialization, tend to be more self reflective and, like more aware of their emotions and so, so that's a great thing, but it can also mean that we can get so stuck in our self reflection and so stuck in processing that are our emotions, that we're not willing to take action until we feel like, ready and good and confident and like we, you know, like, we have a high bar that we're holding ourselves to, yeah, where we can even take action. Versus men are more like, Okay, that's all I gotta do. I'll do it like, they're just more like,

Julia Landauer 50:42 well, that's not just in love. That's like, if you think of the Harvard Business Review study about how women won't apply for jobs or promotions unless they meet 100% of the request, yes, whereas guys will meet like, 60% and be like, All right, I'm good

Speaker 1 50:53 to go. Right? Yeah, exactly. And I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna get this job. I'm gonna rock this job. And yeah, and we're not even applying, and we're to be his boss. Yeah, a

Julia Landauer 51:03 whole another conversation we could totally have. I want to respectful of your time. I can't believe this time has gone by already. I want to jump into before we get to the if you were honest, rapid fire the dating climate now, because my husband and I met on an app, and I I have a lot of success with apps in general, because especially, I moved to North Carolina to pursue my racing career, and I was very steadfast that I would not date people in the industry. I just did not want to for any number of reasons. The only way I was going to meet people, because I'm not the most social being, and I was traveling all the time, was on the apps. So before my husband, hypothetically, we I dated someone for two and a half years. We met on an app. I met my husband on an app. But I've also heard, just on social media, with influencers, with friends, that like the apps are awful now, and that, like the climate is rough. And I'm guessing I just what's your assessment of the dating climate on on apps in particular, maybe any tips that if people feel like the apps are the only way to find people what your tips or suggestion or response would be?

Speaker 1 52:09 Yeah. I mean, the apps are not, they're not having their best moment, and for a number of reasons. But, you know, people are burned out on the apps, but also the incentives are fundamentally misaligned, because these apps profit for your search for love, right? And so they need people like you, Julia, who are going to get on and going to be focused, and going to like, you know, not waste your time, and you're going to, I'm sure that you actually, like, engage with the messages, and you're like, okay, like, Let's get together. You're not kind of getting sucked into what the technology very easily, kind of guides people into which is sort of like just like, endless swiping, rolling, swiping, yeah, you know, endless scrolling, endless swiping, endless messaging. Like things not going like, like that. They need people like you to be successful. So like, they can still say, like this works, because it does for some people, but it doesn't work for most people, because most people are not using that, are not using the apps in a way that are likely to be successful. And so we have a lot of people who are, you know, the first of all, their mindset about other people is like, catalog, you know, items in a catalog. So you're not actually, like, taking a moment. What does this person have to say? What's the energy? Like, you know, like they're so, like, is this hot? You know, people are looking for more reasons to say no than they are looking for reasons to say yes. And they're saying yes to a lot of things that might make a really sexy profile, but aren't necessarily connected to like, whatever I'm going to carry them, aren't going to carry them, right? And people are distracted. So it's like, you know? I mean, I always tell people just this basic advice of, like, like, do you do? Like, do your swiping one day a week and then the rest of the week, let it be you're communicating with the people that you matched with. You're seeing like, Okay, is there something here for us to, you know, get together, go on a date, blah, blah, blah, if there's not wrap it up, if there is like, actually make that like, just like, just not have it be always like. And now I have to keep swiping, and I have to keep getting more matches, and I have to keep going. It's like, just take a moment and actually pay attention to the people you've already connected with, and then look at your profile and ask yourself, does the kind of person who I want to meet, who's looking for the kind of relationship that I want to have? Would they look at this profile and feel like we're a match? Because too many people are just trying to get as many matches as possible and be as generically and widely appealing as possible. And that is not helpful, you know. And so, like, you've got to really, I mean, I know, like, authenticity is, like, such a, you know, overused word and term at this point. But like, and there's levels of. Authenticity, but even on this basic level of like, how you were presenting yourself and the things that you're saying, I can't tell you the number of people Julia, who show me their profiles and they tell me that they're looking for like a partner. They want love. They want true love. They want commitment, and their profiles are indistinguishable from somebody who's looking for a hookup. Yeah, yeah. Like, what are you doing? You know, is that

Julia Landauer 55:23 everything from like, pictures to prompts to, I haven't been on the apps in a while, but I'm assuming, like, all of it's like elements. It's

Speaker 1 55:30 like, your first photo is, like, super sexy, like, you know, like, bikini photo, like, honestly, like, you don't need, like, you don't need to have a you don't need to have a sexy bikini photo on your profile, because, trust me, they they're already,

Julia Landauer 55:45 they're there already, yeah, like, yeah. Like,

Speaker 1 55:50 you need to have a full body photo under your profile, right? And, like, and they can do all of the they can use their imaginations. They can use their imagination, right? Like, so just knowing because like you presenting yourself in that way is like you're leading with something, this is just reality, right? Like you're just leading with something that is saying, like, I'm showing you that this is what I value about myself, right, that I want you to, that I'm using to draw you in, which is a very different energy than having a first photo where it's a headshot of you looking into the camera and smiling, yeah, it's a totally different energy, and you get different kinds of matches. Mm, hmm, you know. So I just, I think, you know, just really again, inside job. So, like, you know, how am I approaching this? Am I approaching this? Like, this is just a distraction and something to do in my spare time. But I'm not taking it seriously. You know, people stay on the apps for long time, and sometimes people have been on apps for like, you know, five years, 10 years, and it's like you were just in algorithmic hell anyway. But the larger point, and then I'll move on to see, you see, I can go on about this, the larger point is that I never want anyone to be solely dependent on the dating apps. Yeah, you had a special situation, and you were also intentional about it, which is why you've been successful on the apps. But also,

Julia Landauer 57:10 just to note, I was in Charlotte, where the apps that we're using were fairly new, so it was a specific subset of people who were aware of it and using it. So I do think I'm also, I've been in a small or mid sized city. It's not the same thing. I don't think is dating in New York or in LA. So I just wanted to put that out there, that, yeah, different situation, yes, and

Speaker 1 57:29 no. I mean, honestly, wherever you go, there you are. And, like, if you show up with intention in New York and LA, you're also going to have success. Like, it's just, you know, but, but, but, actually, I should say I never want anybody to be solely dependent on the apps? Yeah, so to me, they should be something that you do as a supplement to your in person efforts. And part of why people are so frustrated with the apps is that so many people now equate dating with being on a dating app. And you do not have to be on a dating app to date. No. So it's like, do you might you have to do other things in your life differently so that you're, you know, you're more comfortable, like, with those interactions that you have, with those day to day interactions, like, I call it a meet cute mindset. Like, are you willing to, like, adopt the belief, because it's true that every time you leave your house, you have the potential to meet someone special. And so given that, what might you do differently, right? When might you not be on your phone and you actually just be with your surroundings? When might you actually make eye contact or smile or say hello or say, Oh, wow, those are cool shoes. Or when might you, like, accept an invitation to a party that you wouldn't normally go to because you don't know anyone there and actually be like, Well, I don't know anyone there, right? And I'm open to meeting people. I want to date. I want to, you know, so expanding your social circle and just like embracing connection for the sake of connection, yeah, getting comfortable flirting, you might have to do all those things, but you can do all those things, right? And so I think if people did more of that, then the experience on the apps would be different, because then it wouldn't be like this kind of desperate energy, of like, this is the only way I can meet someone. Goes back to the scarcity,

Julia Landauer 59:10 goes back to the scarcity of love, and it's not. And I do think your point of like, when you're on your phone versus not is like, I feel like having your phone out in public is such a blinder for the world around you, and if you need, like, a defense mechanism, short whip it out. But like, yeah, walking on the street, being in a grocery store, waiting in an elevator, is such a big difference. If you just also a little practice. You get with having those, like little micro conversations, and you get to work on your energy, and I see that even, like, I'm almost a year into working at NASCAR, and I'm still meeting people, and so, like, in the elevator, even it helps that we don't have service in the elevator. But like, you know, fortunately, like, I always say hi to people, and I ask what they're doing on the team, like on the company, and it just, I. Think it really helps the energy that you have, like, how you, how you, how you view people you don't know,

Speaker 1 1:00:05 yeah, well, and it also helps with our just our mental health and our physical well being, like, you know, like sociology, like, they call those weak ties, like, just like those micro interactions that you have every day, they actually have an effect on your overall health, happiness, feelings of connectedness, like just knowing, like, yeah, there are other humans in this world, and we have the ability to connect. Love is not scarce, right? Like, yeah, we can cut ourselves off from other people, or we can move to the world in a more open hearted way, yeah. And if you combine moving through the world in an open hearted way with an intention for romantic partnership, like you will meet people, yeah, but you know, are you going to be able to recognize and capitalize on those opportunities? That's what I want people to focus on. Yeah. I

Julia Landauer 1:00:50 know that we're almost out of time. So I just want to ask one more question before the rapid fire. Do you notice a difference in, and I don't know how much you're coaching folks in New York versus LA, and I know you're based in LA, my clients are everywhere, everywhere. Okay, so one thing that I really miss about New York is that pedestrian stranger interaction, because Charlotte's not particularly pedestrian friendly, and so you're isolated a lot more in your car going to work. You can walk around in neighborhoods, but it's not as it's not New York. No, I don't understand. No place is New York. But do you notice a difference in those like soft connections with your clients, and how that impacts the dating in LA versus New York?

Speaker 1 1:01:27 You know, honestly, I think people have just as much trouble these days, even in big cities, because even if they are having those interactions, having those interactions, but still having, still the openness that, like, oh, maybe I can capitalize on this moment, and feeling the confidence or the know how to do that is something that people are struggling with and and even in you know, I mean, I know, like you and I are both New York City natives, but, like, even you know technology and the way people interact with technology in New York, everybody's heads down too with their phones, so things are not but for someone like you, like me, like, I'm also very intentional about connection. I talk to people. I make friends all the time. Like, I'm always because, but it's a choice, yeah, and even in big cities, people are not always making that choice.

Julia Landauer 1:02:22 There, there. Franny, this has been so great. We're gonna end on the rapid fire, if you're honest. So buckle up. I've got some heavy hitters here, not really at all. First, first question is, do you stay friends with your exes?

Speaker 1 1:02:41 No, if I'm being honest, I don't immediately, it's not, and it's not that I wish them any will, ill will, or anything like that. It's just that we didn't have a pure friendship, yeah, and so no,

Julia Landauer 1:02:58 I agree. I feel like, if you go into a relationship, especially if it's starts as a romantic pursuit, like, that's a different dynamic. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:03:05 absolutely. I mean, I have a couple of, like, you know, we kind of dated, and we were friends first, so that we kind of dated, but then what? Not that serious, and we're still friends. I have those. But in terms of, like, boyfriend committed, we went into a relationship, you were my partner. Like, once we break up, yeah? I mean, yeah, if life were to organically bring us back together at a different time, where that made sense, that's one thing, but otherwise, no, yeah,

Julia Landauer 1:03:32 I hear you on the same page. Um, what's something you've read recently that you loved?

Speaker 1 1:03:39 Ooh, okay, well, this is a little bit of a cheat, but I so I was at TED last week in Atlanta, and there was a speaker named casley Killam, and she wrote a book called The Art and Science of connection, of human connection, and maybe the art and science of art and science of human connection. I believe it's human connection. And so this is a bit of a cheat, because I heard her say something before I got her book. Okay, we're

Julia Landauer 1:04:13 going for the content here. So,

Speaker 1 1:04:17 but she, she actually what kind of what kind of what we were just talking about. She talks about, like, social health as this, basically, like this overlooked pillar of our overall health, like we think of mental health, we think of of physical health, we even think of emotional health, but we don't think of social health. And like, how connected are we? How much are we investing in those connections, and that really moved me, and we and also in a discussion on AI, because I'm very concerned about AI in the like relationship space, in the dating space, and a lot of platforms are using a lot of AI, and they're, yeah, really marketing AI is like the solution. To disconnection. And I think that's a really slippery slope. And, and she said about AI that the love is real, like the love that you feel like for these AI companions or whatever, but the lover is not. And I was like, Oh, that just sums it up.

Julia Landauer 1:05:22 This encapsulates it totally. Oh yeah, it does. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm really intrigued by AI, and I do a lot of professionally involved, a lot and so. But I hadn't, I'll be honest, I had not thought about in the context of love and matchmaking or dating. So whole another conversation for another day. What's your go to? Lazy dinner to cook.

Speaker 1 1:05:40 Oh, what's my go to lazy dinner? I mean, oh gosh,

Julia Landauer 1:05:46 not to really. I

Speaker 1 1:05:47 usually eat a salad for dinner every night there and but my salad is like, elaborate, um, because it has a lot of ingredients, and I chop, you a lot of chopping, so it's not really lazy, because it takes me, like, it takes me my class is terrible. It takes me, like, anywhere from like 30 to 40 minutes to make my salad. So it's not really lazy, but that's my go to

Julia Landauer 1:06:14 TV. Measures that easy. Yeah. Love it. What is your favorite romantic gesture, and I would say, to receive, ooh,

Speaker 1 1:06:24 well, I'm a, I'm a big acts of service person. So a really big romantic gesture is like, Oh, my God, you got my car washed.

Julia Landauer 1:06:38 Wow, that is, yeah, I love you. That is amazing. Noted, Ben has never gotten my car wash, so I'm gonna point that out to him, getting him in trouble. I love that. And the last, if you're honest, what is something that you're grateful for right now?

Speaker 1 1:06:55 Oh, I'm grateful for turning 50. Yeah, yeah, super excited about this next decade of my life. Yeah, good things are happening.

Julia Landauer 1:07:06 Oh, and clearly you are open to good things happening to you, and this was so much fun. Your energy is amazing. I feel bad that we haven't kept in touch more, and we're going to now, and I'm excited to be reconnected with you, and I will link this in the description. But where can people find you? Online if they want to take your archetype quiz, if they want to reach out to you? Because you're clearly amazing and amazing to talk to, and so smart and thorough, and I love how you're focused on the process and not like, just the result and what you're getting to because I think it's helpful, almost like regardless of if you're like needing the true love or just also trying to have true love for yourself, I think it's relevant to everyone in their journey. So where can people do

Speaker 1 1:07:48 Thank you? Well, I'm easy to find. I'm at dear Franny all the places. I also have a podcast called Dear Franny. And if you people can go to my website, which is Francesca hoagie.com and take the dating archetype quiz. You can also go to the links in any of my bios on social and Instagram or threads or Facebook or the places and Oh. And I'm also launching a Patreon, so that will also be Patreon slash dear Franny, so people can find me there as well. Amazing.

Julia Landauer 1:08:20 Well, thank you so much for joining us. I hope that all of our listeners love this as much as I did. This was so cool. And the theme of this, this season, for me, is human performance. And I think that the self love and how that then translates outwards is so important to our own performance holistically. So thank you. I hope listeners, please share this episode with people who might find it helpful, reach out to for any issues so great. And as always, thank you for letting us be honest with you, and I look forward to seeing you in two weeks.