hello everybody, and welcome back to If I'm Honest. This week I am so excited to have Mick Batyske on the show. Mick is a DJ, content creator, tech investor, inspirational speaker, and music curator. Forbes has said that Mick walks a tightrope between entertainer and entrepreneur. Vogue said he keeps the dance floor going all night, and Drake once said mixed mixes were pivotal in his life as a DJ. Mick is a regular at Art Basel, Cannes Leon, CES, F1, the Grammys, NBA All-Star in the Super Bowl. Some of his clients have included A16Z, Cartier, GQ, Instagram, LeBron James, Michelle Obama, at the NBA, Prince, Spotify, and Vanity Fair, and more. That is an all-star lineup, and he has helped create social campaigns for brands like Avion, Cadillac, LinkedIn, McAllen, Maserati, New Balance, Public, and Tonal. As more than just a DJ, Mick invests in and advises a wide array of startups and early-stage companies. His investments include Anchor, Backdrop Freestyle, Last Crum, Quicknode, and Tiny Organics. He speaks regularly on creativity, entrepreneurship, and culture to brands, conferences, and universities, and he lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Carolyn, and his 10 year old son, Myles. This conversation was so much fun, and he shared so much with us, everything from the nitty gritty of how he built up his career as a DJ, some of the things that he wished he had done differently, what it looks like to do outbound pitches to get engagements to pay the bills, how he approaches the creative process, and how he's evolved his brand and what he's pursuing professionally to meet the needs of who he is as a person as he's growing, and also what the world is doing around him. So he, he is so generous with his thoughts and his time, and this was a really, really interesting discussion with a lot of parallels to my own life, so I thought it was very, very cool, and I hope you enjoy this episode, Mick. Thank you so much for joining me on If I'm Honest.

Hi, I'm excited to be honest today.

I love that, that's a good attitude going in. So, how are things going in general right now?

If I'm honest,

thank you so

much. Yeah, pretty good, you know. Good days, bad days, more good days than bad. That's all you can really hope for, right? You have kind of blessed if you're batting above 50% on that.

Yeah, that's a great way of phrasing it. So, you are super cool and multifaceted, and I think I started following you first on LinkedIn, and then had the gall to ask for a connection, and then

that's a

good flow. Like, I liked, I need more of that. I mean, yeah, people like finding me on that first. I think that's al.. I think I'll have a better life when I grow up. The more people do that,

you have really cool.. I mean, you have really cool content. We'll get into that more. But thank you, first and foremost, for responding to my cold email to come on here. This is

awesome.

It's so fun to.. I think, especially people pursuing non-traditional careers or things that you're not taught in school. I always like to hear other people's stories, and so we will jump right in. A lot of people have passions and hobbies, but very few, I think, you know, pursue them as a way to make a living. And so you were DJing in college, you became a professional DJ out of college with the Cleveland Cavaliers. How, how did you jump into pursuing that as a career?

I mean, I don't know.

Okay,

to be honest with you, like, I didn't really plan on this until significantly after college. Like, it was a college, it was a, it was just a hobby in college. I played drums growing up, I couldn't bring drums into a dorm room, so I brought turntables, taught myself how to DJ. It was cool. This was like 96 so like there weren't DJs like for now, like everybody's a DJ now, right now, man. I was like two DJs in my entire college, so it was unique and it was fun, and it was a great way. I'm an introvert, so it was a great way for me to like make friends and get a college girlfriend and all of those things. And that was fun. I graduated, thought I was gonna be done. Drop market sucked. This is like the year 2000 in Cleveland, Ohio. I was a marketing background, very creative person. The marketing stuff in Cleveland was not.. there wasn't, you know, the internet was still new.

That's

how old I am. Like, there was social, didn't exist. Like, there weren't cool tech companies. Like, anything that was marketing-related was very analytic-based. I was like, that's not for me. So I just kept DJing, and then I went back to grad school, and then around that time I kind of started realizing, oh, there's there could be a path here, and at that time my career had evolved from college radio to commercial radio, from local, like college bars to every nightclub in Cleveland, and then from every nightclub in Cleveland to like the Rock Hall of Fame, and all that, you know, I love being from Cleveland, but we have like three things - we have like the Cavs, the Browns, the what are they now, the Guardians, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and all amazing things. But I was doing all those things, and at that point they were all kind of like synergetically working in my favor to make a big move out, and then few years later I was able to move to New York, kind of throw all my eggs in one basket and landed here.

That's really cool. So, as you were, you know, doing the DJing in Ohio, were you starting to make money off of it then? And, like, treating it as

that was how I supported myself. Like,

okay, so it wasn't the marketing job.

No, no, I went to school. I have a BA in marketing. I have a master's in marketing.

Have all this

shit I paid for that taught me a lot about, like, life, but I've never used it within the four walls of, like, a

corporate

building. I got me an internship when I was in grad school for some bank in Cleveland, and, like, I got, like, fired from my internship for being too sarcastic. Oh, wow, that's too bad. But you know, it worked out, and yeah, no, I've always worked for myself, really, since I was 18, I mean, even if you want to go back further than that, like, my family had my grandpa at a drugstore, and I, he gave me my first job when I was in seventh grade, and I worked from that until the day I went to college, so, like, it wasn't like working for myself, but it was, in a sense, that it was like the family business, like, I feel very fortunate, and I learned so much entrepreneurial things and hustle from him. Yeah, then I guess I guess I look back in life, a lot of it applied itself to how I've done my own thing.

Yeah, so when you moved to New York,

I'm a horrible employee.

Hey, that's okay.

Oh, my clients love me, but like, I'm like, like, like, if I

had a boss for that, yeah, yeah. Okay, so when you moved to New York, you said that you were putting all your eggs in one basket. What does that look like on the business side, like from the change from Ohio? And I'm meaning, like, you know, at some point if you're a freelancer, you know, sometimes you set up a legal entity, or you do, like, some of the..

I was just a sole proprietor working off my social, you know, for.. I will, I will happily say, or sadly say that for far too long.

Okay,

my wife will tell you that I finally grew up recently, but you know, like, let's just say, like, a lot of people have my social security number, so, like, you know, identity fraud is common for me. Happens every freeze your social,

it's

a credit report, security number does, anyways, like, you know, they give you a little blue card, I've used that twice in my entire life, you know. Then you, like, I lost it. You need it to get something, and then you need to get another social security card. But then they're like, "We need your social security card to get a social security card. I'm like, "What the fuck? Like, this is, you're making it

this

far. Yeah, like, but anyways, yeah, it was just kind of like figuring it out, and that's that's what I did. And it was just like, you know, it wasn't glamorous, it wasn't luxurious, it was doing whatever I could do once I got here to make ends meet, and there were cool things that were coming into.. I had enough relationships to, you know, I wouldn't have moved here if I didn't know I had a baseline of success that could potentially.. I wouldn't say success, but like stability,

yeah,

but then you know when you're trying to grow, you can't really turn down anything, so I did everything and anything, and some of those things ended up being like incredible things, and a lot of those things ended up being like things that I barely even remember,

right,

for very little money, for very long hours,

very,

you know, shitty conditions,

yeah,

but all of those things like build you like, like I'm definitely like 30,000 hours into my Malcolm Gladwell DJ career, and I'm glad for all of those opportunities, because now it doesn't matter where I am in the world, like whenever shit goes wrong, because it inevitably does, and it doesn't matter who I'm working for, or like what the money is, like something still can, the same things go wrong, but all the things that went wrong when you're making $200 at four in the morning, they're a lot easier to fix when you're paying for a family, and you're paying,

yeah,

you know, but the same shit goes wrong,

right?

You just have a better.. I'm glad I solved it under like tough circumstances, so that, like, now I could solve it. When you're solving them in ease, yeah, it's much better.

No, totally. So one more question, because then I want to get into the craft of DJing, but before we do that, you said that you, you wouldn't have made the move to New York if you hadn't had some sense that there was some stability. Can you share, like, what, what the specific things were that made you feel that, like, connections? Was it sure your crap? Like, what was

I realized a couple things, like I have a very unique background in how my career started, which was, I, I was, I guess, started with college radio, and college radio was very important at the time. Is that it's.. I don't think it's.. I'm sure it still exists. It doesn't hold the cultural, like, you know, gravity that it did then. But that led to a lot of relationships with record labels, which led to me getting on commercial radio, which led to lots of relationships with record labels, which led to lots of relationships with artists and managers. So I had that side. I was DJing for the Cavs, so I had a lot of relationships on the sports marketing side, and you know, sneakers and all that. I had a lot of relationships with, like, LeBron's team and his sponsors and all of those people. And then I also just, as I grew in Cleveland, and then, you know, it's funny, because I gave this, exactly, I gave a very similar answer a couple months ago, but it's very true, when all these things were happening for me, Cleveland was getting cooler as well, because it was like the first LeBron era. So, there were lots of people coming to Cleveland at the time as well, from different brands and different concert promoting things. Just anybody who was needed to see me at that time, the amount of people that saw me in those five years of that era were people that had no business seeing me, but they all did

right,

and so when you combine the music and the sports, and then, of course, I have the know-how to connect these dots, because I was educated in that, plus I have a natural, like, affinity towards that, towards like relationship management, and things of that nature, and just always marketing myself, hopefully holistic and integrity, I don't know if that's a word. I, that kind of like gave me the ability to like see the future, in a sense of like, okay, I'm not going to New York and just try to do night clubs,

right,

but I will have to do some, I'm not going to move to New York and just try to do brand events, because I'd only work twice a month, I'm not going to go to New York and do sports stuff, because that's like impossible, the analogy I use actually is like, if I wanted to, if I was born, I actually think it's easier, like it's almost like in sports, where if you are traded to a big market, but you make your name in another market, you're coming in at least at worst case in the middle, or if you get signed as a free agent, whatever, like if you're like New York born and braised, or LA, or like whatever, like you're starting at the bottom, where there's a million basketball players, there's a million rappers, there's a million DJs, there's a million graffiti artists, there's a million chefs, there's a million, there's a million people here who do everything really, really fucking well.

Yeah,

in Cleveland, there were a lot of people who did a lot of things really well, but there weren't as many, so it was easier for me to rise to the top there, simply because there just weren't as many. It was just, it's just statistical fact, you know, and so once I was able to rise to the top there, it was easier for me to, like, get traded over, you know, I mean, yeah, and maybe I didn't trade, get traded over to be in the starting five, but, but I was on the team, and that's already an accomplishment, and so I'm very grateful for that, you know, I don't know that I recommend that path for everybody, but like, for me, I could guarantee, if I was born and raised in New York City, like, I would not be doing this right now, because it would have just been statistically, the odds are impossible. There's like 27 DJs that live on my street,

right? Right? No, and I think it's a really good point. I think you see that across a lot. I

couldn't have told you that then, by the way. I didn't realize that, so years later, when I was, I was like, oh, I'm from a small town, woe is me, like, you know, like,

yeah,

that was the greatest thing that ever happened. Yeah, I'm so grateful for it. I love going home, I love my path, and you know, and I try to always advise my Cleveland friends and fam, still, like, you're in a great position to make great things happen.

Yeah, but I think that appreciation, in hindsight, is, you know, something that comes as you get older, and like things that I didn't, also did not recognize as being happy about growing up, or like being thinking were particularly impactful on my journey, end up being a big part of why I did what I did, so obviously to build all those relationships and to establish yourself as like really, really good, you have to be really, really good DJ, so as someone who does not know the mechanics and the technical elements and the creative parts of being a DJ. Can you explain what your thing is, or what you think you did that then set you apart, and like the creative process for how you create your sound, and like what you bring to clients?

I mean, I'm a lover of music, first and foremost. I think that's really what it is. If I had a guess, like I'm not the most technically talented person in the world, I am technically talented. There's many people way more technically talented than me, there's people more creative than me, there's people with better music taste than me. I'm kind of like B plus across the board, which is like I think probably what my secret is, like I could practice and be better, but then maybe I wouldn't have spent as much time learning different genres and music, or I could, you know, do that, but then maybe I wouldn't know how to do the marketing and the PR, and like the intangible things I needed to do to sustain a career. I'm like, you don't want to be the best in the world, and nobody ever knows,

yeah,

but you don't want to be like the most popular person that kind of like sucks too, because we all have those people in all sorts of, you know, creative fields where they're there for the wrong reasons, and you know, you just got to settle. Second school, I was a.. I got B's. I could have got A's, but I got B's because I just did a lot of shit, like I had a job, and I had like family shit, and I had DJing, and I was, you know.. and so I made a choice. I was like, I could get A's in college, I could get B's, and have this whole other thing going on, and I chose that, but for me, I guess what informs my creative side of what I do, it's like it's my upbringing, like I grew up listening to every genre of music, I played instruments, my family played instruments, so I was a kid that would go home and play my drums in high school to everything from jazz to the BC Boys to NWA to Pearl Jam, to Soundgarden, to the roots, right. And so I just, and then I would look up all those samples, and I would learn all that stuff. And so, like, my music knowledge was just like, this is pre-Spotify, pre-whosample.com You had to really do the work for it. We appreciate it a lot more. Now I love that you don't have to do the work for it. I love just looking it up on my phone, and walking into a gig, but I'm glad I went the hard way the first time. Yeah, but I wouldn't have if it existed, but you know, but all of that kind of just informed me. So, like, I just, I'm the type of person to play a lot of shit at one time, at one part, like, you know, the more, the more creative I can get, and the more expansive, I guess, is a better word I can get, the happier I am.

Cool. Well, that's awesome. I read that over time you continuously evolve your brand, and we've seen that from your name to, I would assume, partially kind of the creative work that you put out. Why is that evolution and that kind of rebirth, if you will? Feel important to you in particular.

Well, I mean, for starters, like, the world changes all the time, and it's moving faster now than it ever has. So, you kind of have to stay with it, or you will get left behind, and you know, maybe I'm not gonna.. I don't want to be the most with it person with every single genre of music every day. That's not gonna.. that just doesn't fit my sonic identity, and I don't want to be the most, you know, cutting-edge fashion person at this point at 48 because nobody really wants to see a dad wearing crazy

obscure

like street wear things that they wait. Also, I don't believe in waiting in lines if there's a line, I don't want it, but, but I have, I do hire TaskRabbits to wait in line for once I go to concerts easier if there's no taxes. I will say that, because my wife and I go to Blue Note a lot, and the lines always like around the building. Sorry, and I, the hack is to hire a task rabbit outsource.

We love

Indian, you just get, they get there early, because it's first come, first serve at the seating, and I'm a diva, and I want to see the artists that I want to see, because I love the music so much, and I have to want to sit right there, and so, like, you know, just come keeping the, um, you know, the whatever that economy is, the task grab it, yeah, flow, yeah, but what was the question?

The question was about evolving your brand, oh yeah, and like, what, so presentation,

the brand I have now, it wouldn't even have been possible to have 10 years ago or 20 years ago, because the things I'm doing now didn't even exist, right. And to be fair, like even DJing, how I DJ then, how and how I DJ now, that stuff didn't exist. I started analog, moved digital. I started as a hip hop DJ, became a DJ, I played lots of different genres and music. Now, of course, all those genres and music sample hip hop or hip hop samples them, vice versa. So, like, that just, that's a lucky happenstance that enabled

me to

like be extra creative in my sets, and then I started realizing, like, oh, the things that, like, you know, used to be bad, like, oh, you're a DJ, but you went to grad school, you're a nerd, or you're smart, all these things, and then all of a sudden I'm DJing for all these people that are like CEOs of like Fortune 500 companies or VC dudes, and I'm chatting with them about like things that are like normal for how my brain works, and like, now I'm like, "Oh, well, I'm gonna.. I'm kind of like you guys, yeah. Let me, like, kind of like brand myself in that world, and it's not even branding yourself, it's just like letting people know that you are of that mental fortitude, if you will,

giving them something to latch on to as well. Yeah,

common thread too, like, because I had to realize I had to realize what I'm not, and we all put ourselves in these situations where we are not a good fit, but we don't know, and there were times in my career I was like, I got to try this route, I got to be an EDM guy, got to go to Vegas, gotta do, I did all those things, nobody really wanted to stand in front of me with some fucking glow sticks, and take Molly and dance. That wasn't that wasn't the vibe I couldn't make them do it. It wasn't my thing, but I'm really good at my shit.

Yeah,

but I tried it. I tried, I tried a little phase where I tried Molly, but I tried like going there and playing two hours of that, and that just didn't really work for me. And then you know, I've tried forcing myself into like other like pockets of the music industry that just didn't really fit, and so you know, I just had to pick and choose

the

ones that fit mostly with me, and it was just like, okay, cool. Well, I'm an entrepreneurial DJ, I've managed my career since I was 18. Why would I not want to do things for other people who have that same mindset? Or creative DJ, why would I not want to work with people in the creator economy or work with people in the creative space? Like, when you look back on it, the whole shit is just like a map that was right there,

isn't that crazy? Like,

but, but at the time it was just trying to pick and choose with lots of failure, but thankfully lots of non-failures.

Yeah,

a path.

We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back, we're back on, if I'm honest, with Julia Landauer. So, going back to what you're saying, about, you know, you tried out being an EDM DJ, and it didn't work. Correct me if I'm wrong, or I would assume that as a performer, when you, when you're performing, like you feel when you're in the zone, you feel like when you're locked in, like I feel this as a keynote speaker, like I'm sure same for you, you feel like you're locked in, and there's those events where you don't feel that, or maybe it feels chaotic, maybe you feel like your performance was not as good as could be, or the

crowd was just flat,

or the crowd was flat, but like it didn't feel right. Did you have a way to get over that? Like, did it, or first, did it bother you if that happened, or.. and if it did, what was your mechanism for getting over it? Or if

I try as hard as I

can,

based off of my pedigree of what I know I can do, and I did the best I could, considering the constraints. I mean, I have events where I haven't done the best I could, because I was sick, or I was dealing with a family situation, or I missed, like, the flight was like, you know, we all have like life constraints, but the 99% of the time where I am for. On like giving you the best, because that's my goal every time, and it doesn't land, you know? If I can't really get mad at it anymore, you get frustrated, I guess. More I get frustrated with my expectations,

because

it's more like when I think I'm gonna.. when I have something where I think I get to be really like artistic and creative, and I'm like, I kind of get like really amped for that, regardless of the economics. Those ones are the ones where the economics actually never add up, but like I do it for like

it's so fun.

Yeah, and sometimes those are amazing, and I get to have play every record I've ever wanted to play and do every creative thing I ever wanted to do, but sometimes I get like so excited about it, because when I started, most of the things I did were like that, and now they're not always like that. So, when those do come up, I get so fucking geeked, yeah. And sometimes when I get there, they actually don't land like those are the ones I really prep for, because I'm just like, yeah, I can do this and that.

Yeah,

like I'm finding this, like I have like this whole vision of how I want to go based on the nostalgia of how it used to go for me, when you know, and sometimes it does go like that, but when it doesn't, I get a little frustrated, because it's more from my personal, like, artistic fulfillment.

Yeah,

because I don't always get artistically fulfilled, which

is totally

fine, by the way. My kid would rather, like, eat,

yeah,

but, like, you know, he's like, 'Art, fuck that, you know, but it's just like I do need to have that occasionally,

for sure.

And thankfully, I do, but it just sometimes I get so.. and my wife's always just like, "You got to temper your expectations, you know? But like, she's right, I

get what she's saying,

because I get too.. I get just too into it.

Yeah,

or like, I'll like overcommit myself to like three things that I really want to do, because I'm remembering how it felt sometimes. Also, I remember how it felt to do things when I was 20 or 25 and it was cool. And when you do those same things at 48 it doesn't necessarily feel the same, because I'm not playing for.. I'm not.. I'm not in that vibe anymore, you know. And so, like, I like.. if I go do something, and I live in Brooklyn, and I'm like, sometimes I'm just like, I just want to go do a fun party at a friend's bar,

yeah,

show up, play some records, and it's gonna feel exactly how it felt when I was living, when I was living that life,

yeah.

And then I get there, and it's fine, but it doesn't know, I want, I want to feel like how it felt then for me, but it doesn't, because I'm me now,

yeah,

and they're me then, but they're living in the now.

Yeah,

so I'm not gonna feel that carefree, like you know,

right?

Whatever, like that's just not my thing. And then, obviously, like music, music is different as well, so like I, but I always, you know, but I'll never stop trying that. I'll be, I'm gonna be a little bit stubborn with it until the end, because when those things do align, it's just the best.

Well, I really appreciate you saying that, because I, so I've been speaking for 10 years, and I love it. Like, I bring humor. 10 years

is incredible. Yeah,

thank you. I bring

speaker years, that's probably like 100 years.

I'm like, it's.. I'm doing, trying to keep going as long as I can, but it was a kind of thing where I, for a long time, like, there was this super high, high afterwards, and you know, the energy from the crowd, I know they make them laugh at certain times, and and then I found that as I was doing more engagements per year, and it was coming more frequently, that high got lower and lower, and I remember it was sometime earlier this year where I was like, oh, wow, that didn't have the lasting impact that I remembered this having, and on the one hand, I'm really grateful, because it means I'm doing more engagements, and I'm becoming much more regular in my, in my delivery, but it was a little bit of a disappointment, because that energy that you get and the satisfaction that high is so cool, but then also to your point of really looking forward to those engagements, I even had one recently where they, the client seemed super chill, and like, were happy for me to do whatever I wanted, like it was supposed to be, you know, it was supposed to be like the good time for that event, and I think I did well, and they still laugh when they expected to, when I expect them to, but like my own personal delivery, I was like, ah, that could have been better, and then it's like the hour afterwards, I'm just like beating myself up, and so disappointed that I didn't land what I knew to land, even though they

wouldn't know. Did you know? You know, I would ask myself sometimes at these moments, like, is it better for you to just absolutely know that you killed it, or is it better to just feel the way you feel, but know that your stuff still resonated, probably about 85% of people in the audience, and if, like, if somebody has to feel like it wasn't perfect, it's better for it to be you than to be anybody in the audience, because you already know your shit, you already lived it, you know, you're going through it at this point, like they're probably never heard it or never seen it live, and you know, if it's, if you had to pick somebody for it not to connect with, let it be

100% agree, but I think it still doesn't make it easier, objectively, yeah. But, like, as

you're so human,

you're still human, you're still doing the storytelling. I think I feel like we both have pretty high standards for what we deliver, and you want to make sure the client's happy, obviously. So, but yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because very relatable. Think, especially to performers in any capacity.

Absolutely,

yeah. So, you've DJed for celebrities and brands at a lot of really cool events. I have to read this off: Lebron James, Porsche, Michelle Obama, Super Bowl weekend, Khan. So, this is a two-part question for you. Was there any gig that you had to work super hard to book and you got it? And then was there any gig that you really worked hard to try to get, and then didn't get.

I mean, I have to work hard to get a lot of my gigs, like I have a great life, but it's not like my, you know, I'm not famous, I'm not like popular like that, like

house

respect, you know, and I'm good at what I do, and like I have to, I don't, nobody comes, I mean, it does, but people do, but how do I explain this? My inbound is not like crazy,

okay?

Like, I get inbound,

yeah.

Thankfully, I wouldn't have a career, but I don't have like celebrity inbound, or like super influencer inbound, or like supermodel inbound, right?

Like,

nobody's ever like, if we don't get again, no, some people say this, but like 90% of people aren't saying, like, if we don't get Mick, like, we can't do our party, like, no one's, no one's thinking like that. There'd be like, there are there are DJs where, like, people are like, you have to, like, if you want Mark Ronston at your party, you got to get Mark, like, that's what you got to

get,

or like, some people, like, we want Quest, though, we got to get them, because they're so unique in what they do, like, I'm not that tier, I'm like a level or two below, right, so, like, there are other me's, right, but there's only one. There's other me's on that level, but there's only like one of me like that can do the whole like I don't know. Let me, let me back this up. When I'm, when I'm doing these things, I have to like approach everything from like a 360 perspective. Okay, like people will say, hey, I'll give you an example, so I'm going to make this up. We have an event in LA for Oscars, and we were looking for a DJ. And then I'm like, okay, cool. What's the event? It fits the branding of what I do. The economics will probably be good. It definitely will have good people in the room, because I also don't have rates, like I don't believe in having rates.

Okay, we're gonna dive into that later.

Yeah, so I'll say, okay, well, could we confirm the gig? And most people say, yeah, sure, we'll confirm it. Some people like, okay, well, we need a week, we need to clear it with, like, the sponsors, or we need to clear it with, and I'm like, oh shit, okay, well, I really want this gig, right? So, like, I rather than wait a week, I'll look up who the sponsors are, and I'll say, 'Oh, to my.. this.. not.. I won't say this to them, but I'm like, 'Who do I know there?

Yeah,

and then I'll like.. if I know somebody there, and I have a strong personal relationship there, you know, I'm not trying to like over fish, but like, if I know.. if I.. if I know somebody, I'll say, 'Hey, I really want to do this, so you guys are part of it. If you guys could help, like finesses, because I've worked with you in the past, and you're part of this, so now I have like vouching coming from two sides, or sometimes it'll even be like the venue, or like, like, whatever, whatever the case may be, like, if I'm not a guaranteed like short shot to lock it in, why would I not?

Yeah,

you know, it's just like, you know, it's just like PR, but on a micro level,

we also are leveraging the network that you have worked so hard, like you're not cold

calling strangers and saying, "Hey, I really like, but like, if I have those relationships, like, why would I not use them? And thankfully, I don't have to do that all the time, but like, why not? So, like, yeah, I've had games where I've had to work every single angle, but just like, if I really want to do something, like, I really want

to do

it, I want to do it, and it's going to be great for my career, and it's going to be great for the client, it's great for the audience, and it's going to be a good situation overall. But, like, I'm not naive enough to think I'm just going to get stuff because I'm good,

yeah,

or because I have a resume, yeah, because I'm so, you know, dashingly handsome. Like, I'm just going to, like, get them, because I, all my gigs come from all sorts of reasons. I get some of the best gigs from a guy that, like, kid plays with my kid at the playground, and we start talking, like, my things aren't just like we're gonna just book him, it could be from anything, it's my wife's, it could be a guy sitting next to on the plane, it could be a woman that I meet, you know, and it doesn't work, my things come from all over the place, so like, if I'm not always open to explaining, you know, my story, yeah, I mean, my little elevator pitch, you know, my life's very different, yeah, but I've grown to like embrace that. I used to hate that, I used to hate that I always had to be like always on, but like, why not? Like, I have a cool job that, like, I'm very lucky to have, and people think it's interesting, why should I not tell people if I'm meeting people that are interesting? I used to be embarrassed by what I do for a while, because people would look at what we did as weird, like you know, when I used to be on planes, I tell somebody I'm a DJ, to be, "Oh, that's nice, and then now, now people are like, "Oh, my daughter just bought a controller at Target, can you, can you give me some, like, you know, people want to talk, and I'll just, like, I'll have a little chat with them, or whatever, but then you never know, sometimes you never see him again, sometimes they're like, "Oh, hey, I run a hedge fund, you know, you should come do our thing in Aspen. And that you just really never know,

yeah.

And then, sure, same for, like, for your, your side of it, you just, you never know,

yeah.

You never know who's in the audience when you're speaking, you never know. And so I always just try to do a good job, whether it's DJing, whether it's being a human,

yeah,

and hope that it all kind of works. Yeah,

well, and I'm so glad you said that, because I think also like that intentionality with your personality and who you are, and trying to find those human connections with people, like one, the world's such a shitty place so much of the time, that like showing a little humanity and like interest and curiosity in other people is just great for humanity and great for that individual interaction, but then to your point, you never know where it's going to go, so you kind of get gigs through that way a little bit inbound. Do you do active outbound, like I love this event, let me go

calendar of things I want to do that I've never done, or new clients that are activating at certain the Super Bowls of the world, or you know, can lines of the world and all those things, and I'll do outbound all the time, but you know, but I do, I do outbound. It's like logical and respectful,

for sure.

Like, I don't try to pitch myself for things that don't make sense.

Oh, yeah, yeah, because

a lot of people, like, I used to not understand that when I, when I started, like, like I'm new to New York, I don't know anybody, but I want to do making this up, a Vogue party during Fashion Week. Why the fuck would they hire me?

Yeah,

like it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah,

but if I fit, like, or if I fit or can improve upon what the type of things that they're already doing, then I'm of course going to do it, because I probably, it might not, I might not know them, but I have enough, like it's like a warm intro, in a sense, because I'm tangentially related enough to it. There's.. I wouldn't pitch myself at all for a lot of things that I used to die to do,

yeah,

because I'm not the right fit anymore.

Yeah,

I don't want to do a release party for a 19 year old rapper.

All right,

that would be very inauthentic to me at this point, yeah. Because I don't love that, but if somebody.. if you know somebody from my era or something, I loved called me to do it. I would do it in three seconds, I would do it for free. Yeah, you know, but it's just like, you got to know where I got to know where I could authentically fit and do a really good job.

Yeah, and I think, like, as you're getting started, also, and, like, especially if you are, like, you know, paycheck to paycheck, and you're, you need to make it work. I totally appreciate the, oh, I can make myself fit properly for this. Oh, yeah, like, if you put a certain lens on it, I will be a great,

if you

have to, and let me also say that I'm speaking from a position of privilege that I can make those decisions now,

yeah,

if I couldn't, and that was just what it was, then I would be all those things, and I would probably, I would probably find ways to make myself more authentic to those spaces as well, if I had to, but I'm grateful that I don't have to, but like

that's a part of growing as an entrepreneur, as a freelancer, like that's and just anyone like you. I feel pushing that I have the

opportunity to choose the things that make the most sense for me at this point, I guess is the best way to say it.

That's beautifully said, and I think something that a lot of people strive for. So, going back to your rate, I find that super interesting. You said you don't have a fixed rate for. so what's your philosophy behind how you earn money from and how you structure the rates?

Well, everything is different, right? And so, like, if somebody's doing a tent pole event at a tent pole function, whether, like, the big things in my world, like, like, and you have lots of people and lots of sponsors and all that, then pay me, you know, pay me a lot if you can, because, like, you have it, and it's there, but at the same time, like, you know, if it's a great look and it's a smaller event, and it's going to be a good time, and there's going to be great people there, and it can create the relationship for somebody else for the future for me, like, I'll move off the couch for that, like, because I know, so like, my thing is, like, either it's like pay me what the event deserves, which is like, what's what I said, which is whether it's like a little, a moderate amount, or a lot, that depends on the scope of the event, right? Just, just, what, as long as you're not screwing me based on the scope of your event, and it's something I want to do, I'm very open to having that discussion. Don't tell me we have $2,000 and I walk in and you bought out, like, you know, like, like, like the New York City Public Library, and it's,

you got budget, like,

come on, man, like, what are you doing? Like, that's, that's really disrespectful. I've had people do that to me. I've had

same

weddings, like, I've had, I had a friend's wedding where they came, screamed they were poor, you know, and I'm just like, and then I got there, and I'm like, you rented out two museums,

right?

And I gave you like 60% off my wedding, right?

Yeah,

and the food wasn't even good, you

get good food,

you know what I mean, like,

yeah.

So it's just like stuff like that, that, that stuff. So I look at it like that, so just, you know, just make it make sense,

yeah. The

other thing is, like, if there's an opportunity for relationships to be built from it, that it's something I want to do, or maybe it has nothing to do with me, maybe it has something that will benefit my wife. My wife's an entrepreneur, she has a baby food company that could benefit her. Put me in there, if it can do something great for my kid, if it, you know, get him into that school.

Yeah,

let's fucking go, you know, like all of that, and then sometimes you just do it for the art of it, which we were talking about before. Sometimes it's, which, you know, again, creatively, sometimes you get burnt, but like,

yeah,

sometimes I just really want to do it. I just want to show up with vinyl records and play obscure J Dilla songs, and like that's what I want to do, and there's not going to be any money in that, but

yeah,

I might be happy,

yeah,

and so like that. How I try to evaluate it, so it's either got to be like fun, great relationships, or money,

that's

preferably all three,

right?

All three, if I hit two of the three, that's that's almost like a home run at this point.

Yeah, and then are you booking all of your stuff, or do you have a team that works?

Yeah, me,

I love that.

Yeah, it's like that's my secret sauce, is like the relationships of life, you know, again, like, could I have made more money in certain events if I had somebody negotiating for me? Yes, would I have gotten all these events that far if I had somebody else doing it for me? No,

yeah,

so I like that they get minimum, it's a break even, or I'm a little bit ahead,

yeah, and you get, and you get to your point, you get to build those relationships, you get,

I want to know people, yeah, because like when that person goes to a different brand, or that person goes to do something else, I don't want to know that. Oh, I used to work for a making this up, Google, and then Google stopped booking me because a girl went to, you know, Meta,

and then..

and then I don't know her, except for the one time of year I'm at their event, and then, you know, like that doesn't make any sense for me. Yeah, I mean, these are people who I have a birthday party, I have a holiday party, I have all these fourth Memorial Day barbecue. I invite these people to my house,

yeah,

like, like, like I create the real relationships out of them, and these people end up being like human being friends.

That's really cool,

not everybody, but like so many of them do, and like, why not? Yeah,

yeah, that was super cool, and not, it's definitely different, I think, from like my experience in speaking, which I think is the only kind of relatable thing, but I love that philosophy, and also I feel like that kind of to your point keeps the creativity alive a little bit, and like keeps it, keeps it spicy

again, it came out of constraints too, because had I become like a celebrity DJ or like something like that, where it was like the inbound was like crazy, where I could just sit at home and wait, wait for the phone to ring, then or the email to come in, then then that's different, but that's not my story. So, like, I had to learn how to manage these relationships, and then whereas that was a negative, now it's 1,000% positive.

Yeah, that's awesome. Was there any point where you kind of wondered if, if the DJing was sustainable from a financial standpoint, or were you kind of, were you always like, since

I wondered that every day.

Okay, cool. So, is this still..

I thought about that at lunch today. I mean, I'm not naive enough to think that this is going to go on forever.

Yeah,

I'm 48 and it's still going. I thought it was going to stop at 40 and I thought it was going to stop at 30,

because that's typically when DJ stopped, or that was like, well,

that was when DJ stopped when I grew up, but now, like, it's different, right? Like, it's just like, but it was always a young man's game, and young, young persons, yeah, but you know, we're the first generation of DJs who have figured it out and have aged,

yeah,

that weren't the, they weren't the like celebrities or icons, you know, if you're the funk flexers of the world, or the jazzy Jeffs, or like, you know, or Nick, the EDM world, like the TSOs, and if you're over 50 or 60 and you're an icon, you're great. Yeah, you'll work forever. But what about all the other people you know? Like, I don't know if their generation had the ability to, you know, have the opportunities that my generation has. So, like, we're the first generation of, like, more like I don't say working class, but like, you know, people who can just, we can, we're the first generation people that aren't icons that are still

almost like working actors, like, yeah, for

exactly, exactly, like I want to be. I'm never going to be like the masthead,

yeah,

but like, yeah, I could be the guy that's.. I, my thinking is that, like, that's actually.. I know we've given me that example before, but that's a great example of it, like I want to be like, what's a good example? I want to be the guy, you don't even know their name, but you just, they're every show

them in every, like, know

that guy. Oh man, he was, he was on Curb, or he was on this, or like, he played this guy, and like, you just see him for like 40 years, 50 years. Yeah, I want to be that guy.

I feel like there are a lot of British actors that are like that, and a lot, you see them across BBC TV shows, and like the murder mysteries, or like even when you get to Down Abbey, like I was big to that Down Abbey fan, like Carson, the butler, like you see him in all of the other things that he did before. Oh my goodness, Carson,

that's funny. And that's there's an interesting parallel to that too, because you know actors are always fitting into different roles and different situations. And then for me, like, that's my thing too. It's like, you know, musically I'll do this, but I could fit into these other spaces, and it's always kind of like I could make myself fit in a bunch of my adaptability,

which

give me longevity.

Mick, you segued so beautifully into my next question. So, thank you so much.

That's my.. that's yeah,

I love

that. I had bad transitions, I shouldn't be here.

That's so true. I also, until we had our wedding, I was not really aware of how important transitions were, and like, I love my DJ, and it was perfect. And then we would go to other weddings where transitions were not fabulous, and it really hurts a dance, but that's okay.

Yeah, some people suck.

Yeah, some people are not very good. So, you've diversified a lot,

save that. That's, that's, that's the next podcast. Okay, my wife wants me to do a podcast where I just absolutely destroy other DJs' YouTube videos, but in Instagram videos she doesn't really want me to do it, but we joke because I have like a couple group chats of like people I really respect, and we'll send some things back and forth, and we're like, if we really just wanted to like dead our careers and friendships, we should just go fucking ape shit on these people, but like,

so that can be your retirement plan, or when you feel the DJing is not

working.

I sit back and do that, but because, like, you know, you see all these pressing all these buttons that, and I'm like, literally, like, that button doesn't do anything, like, you know, or like, you know, you're acting like you're doing this incredible thing on stage, but you're actually just turning your headphone volume,

yeah,

you know, doesn't do shit, yeah, but like you're just acting like you're, you know, and they're like leaning back and like you know getting all into it, and I'm just like you're not

like you're a poser,

yeah, it is just like, but I get it, like you know, we've all done

it,

we're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back. We are back on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer, trying to tie it back to what I know was speaking, so I believe that there are some very famous people who people want to hire them because they're a really cool name, they may or may not be the best storyteller and narrator and speaker. And then there are completely unknowns that are great speakers. Do you find that there are any DJs that are really overrated like that, or like, don't maybe they create a vibe that's really good, and that's what the client was going for. And please don't name names, I don't, I don't want to hate

never, I'll never should publicly like that, because at the end of the day, even the people that I was like joking about this before, that those people are able to still like support themselves doing this little happy art that we all started off doing, like it's incredible. Yeah, and we're all lucky, you know, because for every time I think about that, somebody, somebody's definitely thinking about that about me as well.

So true,

and so like, you always got to be mindful of the ecosystem, because we all play a part sometimes. You're like, you know, the cheese, and sometimes you're like the rabbit, right? Or the mouse. Yeah, it depends on all perspectives.

Yeah,

but yes, like, there are there are definitely lots of people in my world like that. But you know, I'll tell you this: when DJing got like cool in a pop culture sort of way, like over the last 20 years, maybe in the last 15 to 20 years, we were all like, oh, this is going to be bad for us, because all these supermodels are becoming DJs, and all these actors are becoming DJs, and whatever, and you know what that did, that just rose, rose the tide, rise, whatever, I don't know if I don't know if my verb,

rising tide, but it's all boats.

Yes,

all the boats were

lifted. That's exactly like what happened, right? Like the amount of shit that has a DJ at it now is so much,

yeah,

that has no things that have no business. Like, I've DJed things that, like, for a lot of money, or a decent amount of money, or just whatever the case may be. But, like, they had.. there's no reason for me to be.. they didn't need a DJ, they need to maybe music,

but they want,

like, they just wanted a DJ, because, because DJing is so important now in the pop culture. Yeah, zeitgeist, right? And, and I'll happily do that and do a good job for you, but, like, I'm not naive enough to think that, like, you couldn't have solved this with, like, a Spotify, or, like, a really dope harpist, or, like, you know, something, something else, right? And the reason I believe that, like, it's become, I mean, it's become oversaturated, but, like, to be oversaturated has to be saturated in the first place, right? And the reason I think that happened is because it just was in front of so many people. I got to tell you, it didn't get in front of so many people because of people like me,

yeah,

at all. It got in front of so many people because you see it in every TV commercial, and you see it in every TV show, and you see your favorite actress doing it, and you see your favorite sports person doing it, and whatever. And when that happened, all of a sudden everybody was like, "Oh, this DJ is not just a person. When I would tell people I'm a DJ, they'd be like, "Oh, are you like on the radio? Are you like talking? I'm like, "Nope, no, no. And they're like, "Oh, do you do weddings? And I'm like, "Actually, I do do weddings, but like, but like I'm not a wedding DJ,

right?

I do, I do weddings like me. If people hire me for their weddings because they don't want the.. but like, you know, like that would be the thing, like, oh, so what is that? What do you do, like sports bars? Like, there was like, there was a time where, if you were a DJ, it only meant three things:

wedding dive

bars or drive time radio,

huh?

You know,

yeah,

and now, now people know what that means, and the reason that happened was because the world caught up to it, and the world caught, caught up to it because of these things that were supposed to, like, take us down,

yeah,

and instead it just built us up,

isn't that cool?

It's awesome,

I think that's really cool, and I think that's like, I saw that,

thanks, Paris Hilton,

who love Paris Hilton,

who's actually a really good DJ, like, I saw her do many things, and she's actually really good, so like, but she was like, I think she was one of the first people of that level of fame.

Yeah,

that said, I'm going to start doing,

yeah. No, that's great. I mean, we saw it in motorsports, I think it's the same thing in speaking, and I tell people that it's like, I don't know if you feel this with DJing also, but it's like, once a client hires you, maybe it's less relevant for you, but once a client hires a speaker. If it's an annual company event, like they're probably not going to hire you again, because they want to bring in fresh voices. So, in some ways, it makes, I think, the industry potentially a little more collaborative, because it's not this scarcity mindset. Oh,

that's interesting, because for me

it might be obvious. Yeah, okay,

I want repeat business,

okay?

And I want triple business.

I would love repeat business, or something,

but it's a little tougher if you're a speaker, because, like, even if you have, like, three or four talks, like, the message is gonna, it does get a little, like, like listening to your parents, like, you

know, they need to keep the fresh things, yeah,

DJing is like, you know, at least, like, the music is different, but that inevitably happens to me as well. Some people are like, "Oh, we had this guy three years for our office for our holiday party, we got to get something

in,

and I get it,

yeah,

so I, and when people do move on, I'm just grateful for the opportunity, but like I'm gonna hold on as long as I can, sure, but like it is inevitable,

yeah,

but I guess I realize I'm compared to like speaking, it's a little

different, yeah, which is cool, I'm, you know, keep going with one client as long as you can, that repeat business is awesome,

monogamy. Yeah,

we love that. So, obviously, you're a performer, but you're also a speaker, a little bit, right? And you are an investor and a consultant, and it's all tied to the craft of DJing. When did you start scaling who you were and what you were doing to include these different professional avenues?

It kind of started happening.

How,

like, I was outgrowing, like, the DJ box I was in, and I started realizing I need to put myself in these more what became authentic spaces that weren't at the time, but my life was aiming towards

it.

So, when I started doing things more in the tech space, and in the corporate space, and in the creative space for those type of clients. I started like just creating relationships where people actually appreciated how my brain worked outside of just playing the music, so that led to a lot of opportunities to be like on panels, and that led to a lot of like, you know, other things where people like, oh, he has a personality, he likes to talk, he can do this, he could do that, which led to, and I haven't done that much speaking actually in the last couple years, but like, I really want to bring that back, because pre-pandemic it was starting to really started for me. I was really put some real effort into it, and then

pandemic

show of life is what I call pandemic, and I was like, oh, I just put my eggs in other baskets, but like, now it's my wife and I talk about it often, we're like, we're bringing it back, beg you to pick your brain, yeah, make you some playlists or something in exchange,

that sounds more than fair,

you know, it's like I realized I was in these different opportunities in these different rooms with different opportunities, and I was like, wait, if you're gonna have me, I'm making this up, but like, if you're gonna have me DJ something for like Social Media Week, but wait, I have a presence on social media. Why can't I be on a panel, or why can't I do this, or why can't I do that? And so, like, just like, you know, putting, putting yourself in these positions, I'm already in these rooms already, like, why can't I do both? And then the more things you do like that, it just kind of, like,

yeah,

kind of like snowballs and snowballs, and then people start to think of you like, I've always been a multi-hyphenate before, that was a thing,

yeah.

And now it's just like, why not, like, lean into that more than ever.

Well, I think it's from my own personal experience. I also think it's a little more kind of commonplace now. I don't say that in a bad way, I say it in a good way. No,

it's super common. I would raise that one more and say it's almost a necessity now.

Yeah, yeah, because I think, like, when I was like 1314, 1516, I was like nerdy math student and race car driver, and like,

I mean, not that those fucking makes sense, actually, maybe they do on the

outset, it

might, I would imagine there's a lot of calculations going on in your head, it's like

it's a super technical sport, yeah, but like being a New Yorker and like racing and like Nascar and all that stuff, and I think I think that it sometimes made it hard for people to like cleanly put me in a box from like a marketing perspective or brand development or trying to get sponsorship, and so I now seeing that like so many people are doing so much stuff, and it's just it's a relief that we finally got to that point where it's not like a confusing factor, and maybe that was just my personal experience,

but like nowadays, like, are you an NBA player if you don't have a podcast, or are you even right, you know, are you even like a rapper if you don't have like this deal, like everybody has to have these other things, or it's not real?

Yeah, so are you consulting with brands also? Because I asked that specifically because like I can see in this little time together like the creative way that your brain is like connects dots and like you know kind of puts things together and I think that's such, yeah,

I try to do

a little bit of everything, so like you know I've definitely you know been on like projects to help think through brand stuff,

which

I really love,

yeah,

you know, and I do a lot of things also like that with my wife, because she's the other half of the brain that I don't have, she's like the math nerdy math person, like yourself, like she's very much like that's how she, you know, goes, and I'm the opposite side of that brain, and you put us together, you get like one functioning human,

but

like we function really well, so

that's a good, it's

kind of cool,

so all the things that I'm not able to do on a high level, like she is, so we can offer, we offer a lot of value to in that, in that regard, together, but. Right, yeah, and that's happened through like individual consulting things, that's happened for just, you know, startup advising. We've done a lot of angel investing things and try to add value in that way, and and now it's kind of kind of taking it on like more like broader approach, like finally took like a little substack journey and like started doing other things where I'm just like sharing my thoughts overall on the broader like culture of creator

space,

which is like, yes, it's oversaturated. Yes, I know, but like, at the same time, like, I think I do have something unique to add to it, and so be remiss if I didn't do that. Yeah, and so, why not?

Yeah, and Ivan,

if I don't do it, somebody else is going to do it, and I think my perspective can potentially be more interesting than someone else's. So, why not?

Totally, and like, I think companies are really like those social platforms, I'm thinking of LinkedIn in particular, but Substack, I'm not sure, but are like really pushing to have that kind of content on their site, so it's probably only going to help you grow. Also, I would assume,

yeah, of course, especially well again, and I'm lucky that my DJ brand fits neatly into like those sort of areas too. I'm not trying to, like, be like, 'Oh, let me help you advise on your brand strategy, but I'm, but I'm, you know, a basement DJ in London, playing drum and bass. That doesn't make any sense, but, like, when you look at the music and the events that I do, and the worlds that I inhabit, that actually, and the background I have, then that stuff actually does make sense, and then that stuff feeds back into the DJing, and kind of becomes an interesting flywheel where nothing's really cannibalizing anything, which is awesome. Let me tell you something that you might find really interesting.

Yeah,

when I started speaking, so I'm an introvert, like I mentioned before, and when I'm DJing previously, I'm still not like out going on the mic person when I'm DJing, unless I'm like really drunk and really, but I could motivate people enough to do stuff, but I used to even freeze up to, like, make an announcement, like,

like,

you know, I mean, I'm not really making a lot of last call announcements these days, but, like, like, if I had to say anything, like, at all, I would, like, freeze, right, because I've been DJing since I was 18, I've been introverted, never socially shy, I never had to learn how to be the person like my kid. He's coolest person when he walks in the room. I'm not. If I'm not like when I'm done DJing and I walk the room, everyone wants to talk to me. It's very easy for me to talk to everybody, because I'm in a position of not like authority but like influence.

Yeah,

but if I'm at an event and I'm not the performer and I don't know anybody there, I'm shy and bashful on the wall, fucking around on my phone, you know, like. And then I leave early, and that's just how my brain always is. So I've never really, I never really learned how to be outgoing in my, in my, in my DJing. I'm not jumping around on stage, I'm not

doing

all these things, and so I would freeze when it was time to, like, you know, say anything, like, whether it's put your hands in the air, or like, you know, please welcome the CEO of so and so, like, whatever the case may be, I'd always like be super, super,

super,

super nervous, but then unrelated, I started thinking, like, on panels I'm completely fine when I'm not like in the music world of it, and I'm just like being brought on to do something specific, completely fine, when I realized I was good at panels, I started doing like this, I'm speaking stuff, and I was like, oh, I actually, I mean, of course, a little nervous when you walk on stage, you should have something, but like, I was like, totally fine, like, laugh, and you know, whatever, making mistakes, hook as a fuck, just having a good time, but it never translated to my DJing, and then, and then I had to, like, really kind of check myself one day and say, hey, dude, be nervous if you want, but like, if you can go on stage and talk to, like, a couple

100,000

people about God knows what you can say, you know, anybody from New York here tonight, like, you know what I mean, but like, I would, I would have to, like, take a deep breath, like, I'm about to do this, you know, like, stand, like, and it is, it's the same skill,

yeah,

but it's just in a different context, and I never combined it, and isn't that strange? Now

it's fine,

because, like, because it was such a passion that was so important, like, in your heart, like, you love music, and you loved, like, do you think that kind of impacted it? Or

I think it was, like, I mean, I've actually never thought about it, but I think about it when you say that, I think it was more so, like, maybe it's because it was something I started from a position of introversion

and

necessity, and so I never had to, like, I was that person when I started, so I associate that with that, and I associate this with this, and I think another thing is just like I obviously have like musical talent and rhythmic talent being what I do, but I don't have, like, it from a performance standpoint. Yeah, like I'm not like singing or rapping or doing poetry, where like I'm really good at getting my voice like in like a pocket

of the

music, and so much about talking on a microphone while you're DJing, it's more performance based than talking on stage as a speaker,

you're

speaking at your own cadence, you're controlling the cadence, you're controlling things. If I'm gonna say anything while I'm DJing, if you're gonna do it well,

yeah,

it should be in pocket with the song,

right?

You're cutting out the music, you're saying something,

but

you're bringing the song back up on beat,

yeah,

right, or you're saying something you. Want it to be like, or if you're commenting even about the song you're playing, like you're adding on, and there's some people that are like you're a hype man to the song and saying the things that you need to say, that's a completely other skill set. You could take the best speakers from your world and the globe and tell them to go get on the mic at a party and appeal to that, and they would be fucked,

yeah,

because it's not about that, it's just about it's all rhythm, it's all feel, and it's all like, you know, it's emceeing, not in the sense of masters of ceremonies, but I'm seeing in a form of like, like, like hip hop level stuff, and so,

yeah,

that is something I, I'm never gonna have that, I'm just, I have no business ever rapping, so like that level of thing, and I think I had equated it also with that,

yeah,

like, like, oh, but then I realized, you know, what, there's a, there's a happy medium where I could do both, and now I'm fine, but it just, it was funny, it took me having to go all the way to your side of the world to realize I could do that, I'm actually, it's not shy at all, it was just like, and then now I could, I could put it back in,

it's

interesting. It's like the example of, like, it's like, like me, I'm just.. that's how I am. Extremist, like, I got a colonoscopy before I got a physical.

There we go.

They're like, "When's your last physical? I was like, "10 years ago. He's like, "But you're getting a colonoscopy. I'm like, "Well, this is kind of like, why not? You know, like, "Why not?

I'm that age.

And then

I went back and got a physical.. I was like, "You did the harder thing first.

Yeah, that's like..

yeah, yeah, that's like, I don't recommend that, you know, it's not the way you want to break the deal, literally, but, like, you know, but at the same time, like, that's just kind of, I'm always like, once I do that, then doing the other things is always easier,

yeah,

and that's going to be your little takeaway, is like, colonoscopies,

oh yeah, colonoscopy is going to lead the teaser reel

for this, yeah, very important though, if you're, if you're over 40, fully

agree, and if you have any symptoms, if you're under 40, because that's rising in young people. No, I'm not a medical professional. So, last question before getting to the closing segments. Obviously, AI is a big discussion in the world, and everything. What are your feelings about AI as it relates to DJing? If it does,

I mean, it is what it is.

Where are you seeing it permeate?

I see it in a lot of ways. I mean, I use it all the time, just as far as like maintenance and management in my career. Totally feeling easier to handle replies and organization.

Yeah,

I've used it when I need to, like, someone's like, oh, we're doing a big event and we need a song to for this big reveal of this big product, and it's like that's not my job, by the way, to give them that. My job is to come and play music, but I'm nice, and I love my clients, so I'm happy to help.

Yeah,

and I'm like, hmm, I don't really know, like, like I don't really know enough to give an informed opinion on this, so I just dump it all in Claude.

Yeah,

Claude gives me 10 suggestions, and then then I use my.. it gives me a way to, like, I'm an expert curator, but like, it gives me, like, let me curate from 10, let me not curate from the infinity of the Spotify abyss,

yeah,

you know, and then I make an informed decision out of those, and they're like, we fucking love this, oh yeah, great, but like, so it's like a best, it's like, it's like a best of both worlds, right, like I use it to help me,

yeah,

do what I do best,

yeah, no, I agree, and I think that I think at the end of the day, like, people want human craft as well, and so if you can use tools, use it as tools.

Well, I

will say that there's a thing now that we could do while we're DJing that didn't exist a few years ago that's not like AI specific, but like it's, I mean, there's probably some sort of like similar coding going on in the platform, or whatever the case may be, where we're now able to extrapolate the stems of the songs

live

while we're playing.

Oh,

so like you could take out the drums, you could take out the guitar, you could take out the bass, you could take out the keys, you could take out the vocals, so you could just do like if you're, if you're really creative, you could do really fun like remixes and transitions, like in the middle of a party, things you would have never been able to do, and that is an example of, like, you know, do we really need this technology? Absolutely not. We were all completely fine, right, from 2023 and before, but now that we have it, it's awesome,

because

it enables me to, like, really do some extra

kind

of stuff that I was never able to do, and it's just like, first I was like, you know, do we really need this, but of course, of course we don't, but like, but if you have it,

it's here,

how can it really enhance, and if you know how to use it properly, which is true about any technology, and we've been saying this since,

yeah,

you know, the beginning of like electricity, like if you know how to use it, you can make everything

better, yeah,

and if you don't, you could fuck a lot of shit up, yeah, there's people to do that too, and you know, but the only problem now is like those things are going to happen. The technology gaps are going to keep getting tighter and tighter, tighter. That the, it's these gaps are going to be smaller and smaller, and there's going to be a lot more innovation, but a lot more fuck-ups at much shorter intervals.

Yeah,

and that's that's a little scary. Yeah.

Well, well summarized. All right, we're going to go into the last segment, because I can't believe we're at time. I like to ask my guests to complete the sentence, if I'm honest, and you can think of it as parting wisdom on your on your many years of experience. But what would you tell our listeners?

If I'm honest, I would probably tell. Myself, that it's okay to just like relax upon the journey, because it's all gonna like work out the way it's supposed to work out, if you're, if you're doing all the things that you're supposed to do, like I remember when I first moved to New York, I really wanted to be managed by these, these people, and I was just like, I set my whole two years up to be qualified

to, to

be made, to like fit their, you know, their structure

of what it

is that they did. I got a meeting, I was so excited and so nervous, and I went in, and it was a good meeting, and I still know these people to this day, and they're super nice. But then they called me, and the other, I then I had a backup meeting for somebody else who also called me, and both of them told me, "No, you're not. I was doing just as much work as all their DJs, by the way,

right?

But, and that same level of stuff, too. But, like, they were just like, "No, you're.. we don't think you're a good fit. We don't think you're a good fit, and I was crushed.

Yeah,

crushed.

Yeah,

and like, the best thing that ever happened was me never letting go in my career, like relinquishing those parts of my, because I would not have any of the stuff I'm doing now

if

I didn't stay the person, like steering the ship.

Yeah,

and I thought that, you know, and so, like, I, and I've had a million of those, that's like a macro example of it, but I've had millions of smaller versions that the whole time, the gig you don't get, the client that says no, the flight you missed, like, you know, like, all of those things, like, you know, all those things end up working, like, in your favor somehow, even if you lose a gig, even if you lose money, even if your computer crashes, even if all these things can happen, and those, all those things do happen, but, like, now I just, you know, not always, but mostly take them in stride and realize, you know, that you know the path is the path, and if I've made it this far, if it's worked out this far, it's not going to stop working out.

Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah, and it builds resilience, right? Like, that's where resilience,

you need to take some advice from us.

Need to need to learn to fail, which I've done plenty of. So I totally get that. We're going to end on a rapid fire. If you're honest, Who is a performer from the past that you would love to see live,

are they dead?

Yeah, like a dead performer who you never got to see, who you would like to see live,

that I haven't seen alive, I guess. Michael Jackson as a standard.

Do you have a current favorite artist?

I have many.

Okay, what is your go-to easy dinner like to cook?

Oh, for me to cook. If you cook, I don't cook, or if you order. My wife's a great cook, probably chicken, and like just grilled chicken and tomatoes if I'm trying to be healthy.

Nice

pizza if I'm not.

Love that. My God, it's so nice being back in New York with so much pizza, so much food,

too much pizza. Is

there such a thing, though? What is a little joy that you have?

My family,

amazing.

That's a big joy.

It's a big joy, but it's.. I love that it's obviously like an everyday thing. Hopefully, have you ever DJed on a boat?

Yes.

Cool.

And then last question for you, what's something that you're grateful for right now?

Being on your podcast.

Oh my goodness, stop.

Let's get these ratings up.

Let's get these ratings up. Well, thank you so much. If you have another answer, you're free to give another

answer. What am I grateful for? Yeah, honestly, like, I.. this was a dream of mine, that like I was in my bedroom when I was 18, and you know, like with one turntable and a discman on the other side of the mixer, because I couldn't even get two turntables, and like taught myself this thing, and then you know every opportunity that it could have been shut down, like I had some weird universal godly favor that kept it going. My RA, when I was a freshman, loved the fact that I was a DJ and helped me break all the rules, so I could, like, DJ in the dorms loud after curfew. Like, then you know, I was lucky to live in Cleveland when Cleveland got cool because of the MBA. I was lucky to move to New York when it was right, but it was still affordable, but like, but like still you can grow. Like, now I don't know. I don't know if my rent was what it is now in 2008 I mean, when I moved here, I wouldn't be able to do this, you know. And you know, I'm lucky for, like, I have a million of those, you know, step by step by step moments. And so I'm more so just excited to see what the next versions of those are.

Oh, I love that. Well, we will tag and link everything, but where can people find you?

My website is mick.co My Instagram's at Mick. My Substack is.. you might as well just link to

it. I'm gonna link that one,

but that's like.. if you.. if you watch this, I'd love for people to check that out, because that's my newest like little passion project. And you know, if you look on all my other like links of sites and Lincoln bios, there's tons of music and things of that nature too. People can go through with that.

We'll share that. Well, Mick, thank you so much for being honest with us on If I'm Honest.

I

try team. Thank you for joining us on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. I hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed recording it with our guests, and if you liked the episode. Subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform to get new episodes when they drop. It would also be a huge help if you can leave a rating on that page, write a comment, and share the episode with someone who you think might enjoy it. As always, thank you for letting us be honest with you, and I'll see you next week.

Bye.