Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of If I'm Honest. Apologies in advance for the nasally sounding voice I have - allergies really put me in my place this week. But today I'm so excited to share that we have Lindsay Shookus on the show today, and she is a seven time Emmy winning and two time Peabody winning television producer, speaker, and executive coach for 20 years. She was a veteran producer on Saturday Night Live, where she ran the talent department and was responsible for booking the host, musical guests, and cast. Most recently, she executive produced the sports Emmy-nominated HBO docuseries, Alex Vs A-Rod. And today, she brings all the lessons she learned in trust and leadership to stages and executive teams across the country, as a keynote speaker and executive coach, she works with senior leaders, rising talent, and organizations to build credibility, strengthen transformational relationships, and lead with confidence under pressure. She also executive produced Miley Cyrus's New Year's Eve party, was an associate producer on the critically acclaimed TV show 30 Rock, and produced NBC's Adele Live in New York City special. Her work has been recognized by The Hollywood Reporter, Billboard Magazine, Bustle, and Elle magazine. She's also the founder of Women Work Fucking Hard, a community committed to empowering women founders and business leaders. She studied journalism at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. She is a member of the 2022 class of Henry Cowen Fellows within the Aspen Global Leadership Network at the Aspen Institute, and she resides in New York City with her family team. Lindsay is so cool, and we realized when we met prior that we had so many similarities and synergies across our career paths, our lives, what we're focusing on, and so it was really special to dive into what made her so special at SNL, and what she took from that two decade career, and then applies to what she's building now. She gets really, really honest about some of the things she's working through, some very cool mantras that we can all use to help us get out of lulls and tough, tough times, and she just shares so many gems about how she views the world, how she thinks about the world, what she's trying to share with others, and the energy is just incredible. So, I really hope that you enjoy this conversation with Lindsay Shookus. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining me on. If I'm honest, thanks for having me. You've had a busy week. I've had one of those mornings where, if I'm really honest, before I walked in here, I like had to stop, and I put my head against the wall, and I had to.. I literally like outside. Oh, I didn't see that you got it together, literally nose to wall. Had to take three deep breaths before I walked in. Is that how you do your deep breathing? Or, I normally don't go to a wall, but it was just like I compelled you. I felt like I had to like collect myself. I wasn't able to be in the dark, so I was like, just get next to a wall and close your eyes. Oh, would you otherwise go in the dark, like if you were at home? I would just go to quiet private, take some deep breath in the hallway of the building. But you know what, we love that this recording studio is multipurpose now. Yeah, it can be a good centering meditation center and also podcast studio. Exactly. Well, again, thank you so much for joining us. And obviously, I feel like we have so many synergies, it was so fun to talk with you ahead of time, and I've read your intro, like everyone knows who you are, but to kind of jump into the start, you graduated from UNC Chapel Hill, so again, North Carolina, New York connection, love that, and you had a journalism degree, and then you became Marcy Klein's assistant on Saturday Night Live, did you always know that you wanted to go into TV or show business or not? And then, how did you get that gig specifically? I mean, I think, like many people, if I, if I knew that job was an option, I would have been like, yeah, that sounds great, you know. But I grew up in Buffalo, New York, and, and my version of show business was like, I went to, like, regional theater, and you know, like, the anchor of the local news was, like, the biggest deal in the world, like, it wasn't even, like, a thought in my brain, because I didn't know it existed, you know. Obviously, I knew, show, but you don't think of, like, the people who are putting it on. I wasn't really thinking about producing when I was, even though I was, like, born a producer, my mother would say, yeah, I didn't realize you could get paid to do that, so, so it didn't even occur to me until I moved here, and then the first, like, interview I was given was it Saturday Night Live? I mean, it's, did you apply for it, or did you get connected for it? Like, no, I tell this, like, chocolate chip story, chocolate chip cookie story, where I had an internship in a film at a film studio, when I was in college, my once in one semester I couldn't really afford to move to New York, and everybody did, and like stay in the dorms, they were just too expensive. So I lived outside the city in my aunt's house, I commuted back and forth to have my internship, where I really, if I'm honest, I was like, you know, faxing things, and I love that. Thank you for the plug, ding ding ding, every time you say it, you're one of the first people to organically. I say that all the time. Oh my gosh, I'm so hot. Again, another synergy. Sorry to interrupt. We should, we could have a drinking game, but I, I was, I was like faxing things, and I remember photocopying newspaper clippings. I wasn't like really like stretching myself in my internship, but. I really liked my boss, her name was Terry Connors, and I remembered her birthday. And the next summer, when I went back to Buffalo, I was trying to make money, so I could move to New York. I was away, I was waitressing. I think every kid should have to waitress or serve. And I remembered her birthday, I couldn't really afford to, like, get her a gift, so I baked her pocket ship cookies, and I put them in the mail. No, didn't FedEx them, mail them USPS. She got like seven day old cookies in the mail, and I think she was so impressed that I remembered her birthday, and that I like did something about it as a, as a 22 year old. And so when I moved to New York, she was the really the only person I knew in show business. I emailed her, and she was like, let me see what I can do, and the first thing she came back with was like, do you want to interview to be Lorne Michaels' assistant? Oh my gosh, by the time I got there, they had filled that position. Yeah, but then I got immediately kind of swooped over to the talent department to interview there. That is so cool. So, let me ask you, do you like, do you remember everyone's birthday? Is that kind of a thoughtfulness that you naturally possessed, or was a little bit like, okay, I know she's important. I know this is her birthday, let me remember. No wrong answer, right? But like, was that who you like? I'm a gift giver, like, gift. If, if you went into my apartment, I, you know, New York City apartment, don't have room for much. I have two, two gift closets that are labeled, and they're all mostly women-founded companies, but like, I gift, I write notes, and I gift, and it's always been, and, my, you know, obviously, when I was younger, I wasn't as great as a thank you note writer, but now I really pride myself in, like, writing the notes. It makes such a big difference to take a slight tangent. So, like, we bought our apartment, and the management company helped us a lot, and, like, they rushed it, like, we had a very short timeline, and we just, I wrote them along with our broker and our attorney, like handwritten thank you notes from me and Ben, and I get an email, like a week or two later, and she's like, "Oh my god, I've been having a week, and it was just so nice to get this note, and you just have no idea how impactful this was. Thank you so much. And again, it's something I like doing, I like people to know that I'm grateful for them, or that I appreciate them, and it's just so nice that you can know it, like, makes such a positive impact. So, oh, by the way, talk about a way to stand out, especially nowadays. Like, I mean, gifts - I don't think you have to give gifts. I just love doing it. I love thinking it through when it would make someone happy, and I think I'm like the friend who's a little annoying, because, like, I like, you know, I don't just like buy the shirt, yeah. Like, I like really think it through, like, what would be special, yeah. But the note is just something that doesn't take that much time, and it, the impact of the time spent versus the impact, the return on investment is just incredible. It's incredible, and especially if it comes naturally, naturally to you, it just like it flows. It's not an upset, you don't set a reminder or anything, it just like does that. But I think that's a huge, a huge, yeah. Well, I credit it for like helping me get my, my start at Saturday Night Live, so I think it paid off. That's so cool. So, so you're 22 or 23 when you're starting, so you said that you, you ended up in the talent department. Did you stay in the talent department the whole 20 years that you were there? Okay, but you did a lot of different things. Well, you know, I moved my way up, yeah, the food chain. Yeah, so can you explain, like, some of your titles again? I mean, they're all like, it was like I went from assistant to, I think, I jumped over talent associate, they didn't make me do that. Then I was talent coordinator, then talent executive, then associate producer, then maybe co-producer, then producer. I mean, like, it's like that kind of thing, you know. It's SNL, you know, in television, obviously, there's all these different kinds of producers. At SNL, they take the word "producer" in your title very seriously, and at other shows, it's like you can become an associate producer in like two years, right? Like, at SNL, I think it took me eight to become an associate producer. So, what are the components of the producer that you, when you say they take it very seriously, the fact that the word is in your title, like every must produce things. It's like you, you have to be like a serious contributor. They really like Lauren, really. He cared if he didn't care about titles really until that point, until the name producer, the title producer was in your name, which I kind of really respected, because then it was something you really like. It was a big deal. Yeah, when you got that AP credit, it was a big deal, and, and you know, you could be, I could be an associate producer, and you could be an associate producer, and we could be doing two totally different things, but I think it was the impact and the responsibility and the accountability you had that gave you that title. Yeah, and also that they thought you had a future there. I think that was also a sign that they're like, we want you here, that vote of confidence, which I talk about this a bunch, but like, especially as a woman in a male-dominated field, I don't know if it's as much in show business, but like, when you walk into a room and the people underestimate you, you feel that, and so, like, you then have to fight back through it, and so at the same time, when you walk into a room and you know that people take you seriously, and that they respect you, and that they know that you deserve to be there. I feel like it's, it's almost like a luxury that you then get to focus on the craft of what you're doing, which I think is really special. Yeah, I look back at that time, and there was actually another producer who really went to bat for me to get that title, that associate producer title, when I was younger, but I remember, like, at that time I was still like young enough. To like, not really understand the pressure of, of what it means to be, to be starting to become in charge. Yeah, like, it's still really fun. Yeah, and you're not quite like burdened by the like, the hard, hard decisions, right? I mean, if I look back, it was a really awesome time. Me, I met my ex-husband at SNL, and we both became associate producers at the exact same time, and we were given, like, a contract the same time, which was really nice for two people who are dating, because it would be really hard if it wasn't, you know, and it was just such a, like, fun, like, the world, you know, the world is your oyster kind of time for me, so cool. Yeah, was there a specific phase of your time as an L or like a specific role that you felt was most impactful for your own personal development. Well, I think I think becoming in charge, like being a producer, being the head of the talent department was the most impactful as far as like learning. Okay, you know, like having to do hard things, being uncomfortable. If I was gonna go back to, like, the sweet spot of my time, I'd go back to when I was, like, in my 20s, right? Like, I was there with, like, Kristen Wiig and Andy Samberg and Jason Sudeikis, Bill Hader, like, those were my people, and we were all growing up at the show, and, like, you know, what a cool experience that was the most fun for me, but when it comes to like what's made me who I am today, and like I find that usually it's like some of the really hard stuff that makes us better, yeah, and that became when I like I had my daughter and I became producer within, you know, a few days of each, actually, no, I got pregnant and I became producer within like three days of each other, oh wow, and and then having to like learn like the job that I hadn't done yet, prove myself, have a baby, come back like six weeks later, and then work that schedule, you know, I mean, it was, you know, it was really hard, but also just like the most, the most like growth building my life, yeah, for sure, that makes sense, and with all the hard stuff, so from a I don't know, like a making decisions or people management, or that can you share any of the specific, like really hard things that you had to figure out and be responsible for, like one example of something that you look back on, it's like that was really challenging, I mean, listen, Saturday Night Live is is the craziest, like most chaotic, wonderful place. I think I'm trying to think of, like, specific things I learned, like, you know, one, I'm someone who's always just, like, wants to tie it up with a bow, like, okay, now this is done, I can move on with my life. And I really had to learn to get comfortable with just, like, the not knowing the, like, mate, like, you know, it's like, by the way, for instance, COVID, right? I would lose a musical guest like two days before the show, and then it's just like you had to figure it out, and just like you know, having to sit in the, like, this isn't figured out, and yet you have to go to bed tonight, and like, you can't stay up all night worrying about it, or you know, things have a way of working themselves out, but having to just sit in discomfort, also like having to deal with the imposter syndrome of, like, I remember one time Lauren called me into his office, it was like 7o'clock on a Saturday, we were about to start a dress rehearsal, and he was like, I need you to eat dinner in my office tonight during dress rehearsal, and I was like, and I had just ordered myself a really hot turkey burger pizza style, and from this like healthy place called the Pump that we used to eat at, I was all ready to eat my turkey burger pizza style and my steamed broccoli, and he's like, you need to eat up here in my office tonight, and I was like, okay, like, say more, he's like, Mick, Mick's coming, and I was like, "Okay, Mick Jagger, yeah. And he's like, "I want you to have dinner with him and sit with him tonight, you know? He's trying to get him to host the show, and he's like, "So, if you could just, like, you know, help talk to him, whatever, right? And I remember thinking, "Well, first of all, like, I'm not gonna eat a turkey burger pizza style in front with Steam Broccoli in front of Mick Jagger, so that's gonna sit cold for a few hours. Yeah, but like, just the thing of like, what am I gonna talk to Mick Jagger about for two hours? Like, this is Mick Jagger, I mean, he is like, you know, rock and roll royalty, yeah? Like, I don't, I didn't feel like I deserved the honor, honestly. Like, you know, it's like that's just not.. I just didn't.. I remember feeling really like, gosh, like, what are we gonna do for two hours? Was like an insecurity. Well, yeah, for sure. I mean, even after doing it for men, you know, there's certain people that would kind of like.. I remember, like Helen Mirren, being like, "Oh my god, like Helen Mirren, like I need to build a really great relationship with Helen Mirren, or like Elton John, people who were significantly older than me, that I had to then come in and be this person of, like, you know, of strength and knowledge, and it's like, I mean, come on, this is Helen Mirren, yeah, you know, so the big thing I remember this thinking, like, God, like, I remember thinking, like, well, you really, is this being jaded, because you were like, I. Rather go downstairs and eat my turkey burger pizza style, but, but then you're like, I just, you know, you, I often say sometimes you just have to walk in the room before you can talk yourself out of it. Yeah, and that was one of those nights where you're just like, no, you're just gonna go do it, and like, you don't even stop thinking about it, because you're just gonna do it, just go figure it out. And I, I like to say to young people now, and even people like, you know, my age, if like, you have to trust that you're being put, you're being put in situations that you can handle. Yeah, and I think I was really taught that, like, you know, you might not have been schooled or taught, or you don't really understand how you're gonna handle something, but trust that you are being put in the situation for a reason, and you can deal with it. Yeah, you're going to, you will figure it out, and that builds confidence, and it does, and there's like a real, like there's a real confidence builder in it, and you just, and you, then you keep getting better, and you know, yeah, and and next thing you know, it's like, okay, well, now here Elon Musk's coming, and I'm like, I'm gonna figure that one out too, yeah, you know, and that won't be easy, but I know I'll figure it out, and also the great thing is Sunday always comes, right? You know, so like even if you, if you have a hard week, Sunday always comes. It's a finite period of time that you can immediately, and I think that reframe is always super helpful for me. And whether it's just something challenging, something sad, like you know, whatever it is, like the time is finite, like the sun always rises. So that's actually a perfect segue for my next question, because I think I read this off your site. You described what you had to do as head of talent as having quote five days to figure out who someone was, what they were great at, and how you could help them shine, quote. And I think that's such an incredible life skill, team building skill. Can you share, like, if there were any key tactics or tricks or your own personality traits that made you so good at that. Well, you have to get really good at reading a room, right? Like, I think, and they don't teach a class on that. I wish they did. Maybe I should. Maybe that's your next business venture. Oh my goodness, but like, you know, there is a little bit of a natural thing to it, like reading a room, which is like you are seeing more than just your hearing, like your body language. Who's in the room, the energy, who's around, who's talking, who's not talking. Silence says a lot. You have to really listen, which you know we're not good at listening, really. I became a much better listener. Yeah, I became a really great question asker, you know, really, but I think ultimately to be a great question asker, you also have to be not afraid to like let your guard down and talk about your own things, and so, you know, really kind of pulling it back and being like every week being like, what does what are this person's needs, like, what are they scared of, because the truth is, every single host wanted to be great, right? Like, no host is like, "Eh, I'll be.. I'll be a C, you know? Like, they all want to be A's, yeah. And even though they're super famous and they're super successful, like, they're not guaranteed an A on SNL. Yeah, they're very much not guaranteed it. So, like, trying to step back and be like, "How can I help get them what they want, right? And I think ultimately it was like learning to be vulnerable, really, really. You know, what the other thing is, is asking for permission. In the beginning, I learned in the last, like, by the last four years, the show I learned I need to talk to them before they get there. I need to say to them, like, "Hey, how are you with feedback? Like, you and I need to really trust each other. In the next two days, we have to be able to say, be, say, honest things to each other. So, however we can get there, we need to get there. And do you want.. can I give you feedback? Like, are you another way? Here's the thing, most people are terrible with feedback. Yeah, but if you ask them, they typically will say yes, yeah, because it's, it's, you're rarely gonna be like, no, I hate feedback, it's, it's kind of like a thing that you don't want to say, so it gave you, it gave me like permission to find a way to gently give feedback, having asked in the beginning, yeah, no, it's so true, and because, as humans, we get defensive, like, no one wants to be wrong, no one wants to cause harm, and all that stuff, but yeah, if you can preface it and know that it's coming, it's not a surprise when you're getting feedback that's got to be so helpful for you, ask permission, yeah, and they, they really were part in giving you permission to it, but like they really didn't have a choice, yeah, I mean, I think I talk about being coachable on stage nowadays, like I think being coachable and adaptable and being open to feedback is one of the most powerful things we can do as human beings, and also it's one of the hardest things, one of the hardest things. So, two reactions to that. So, yet another synergistic thing between us, because it, like, how I'm interpreting what you're saying is that, like, you put in the extra activation energy to build that relationship, to meet people where they are, and, like, to figure out what their style is for optimal working environments, and like that was something that I also did on on racing teams, so much, especially when you have no idea what someone's background is, they don't really know what your background is, and you're doing this incredibly intense high energy thing together that has serious consequences, and so like that's just so cool to hear, like your side. Yeah, of that, and the second thing is that, so I just gave a keynote, and it was one that I was really happy with the delivery. I thought it was a good one, and the guy who oversees it wanted to talk to me afterwards, and he was like, I have some feedback, and like, I knew I did a good job, and so I knew that it would be an add-on, but I had to do my own coaching. It's like, okay, you're gonna get feedback, don't get defensive, think about where it's coming from, and like, this person hired me, so it's like it's important what they think, and I was so pleased because he was so thoughtful in that feedback, and I, it was basically like, how to do a slightly better job of tying it back to the audience, my own themes and stories, and what the messaging, and how to make it just slightly more personalized for the audience. I was like, I spent 1520 minutes with him afterwards, because it was like, wow, I, he's taking the time to do this. I can, I objectively know that that will make all of my keynotes better if I pay a little more attention to that, and I got to, in the immediate aftermath of a keynote kind of work through the content I just went through and try to take down notes of how that could translate, and it's such a gift if you let it, but it's really hard. I mean, I always say, like, if you look at it like if someone's like, 'Hey, I'm gonna, I've got a secret and it's gonna make you much better, it's gonna make you a better version of yourself. Do you want it? You'd be like, yes, yeah, of course, I want it, but when it's not, it's never presented that way. I mean, I actually, when, when I was on stage once, a couple years ago, and I was doing a Q and A at the end, and I, like I said, I talk about being coachable, right? And someone raised their hand, and they said, do you want feedback from this audience, and I mean, I had no choice but to be like, but of course, and they, he said, "Would you, would you be willing to do a Zoom? And I was like, and sure enough, I did a Zoom with this person from the audience. Wow, he spent 30 minutes with me. He was a big-time event planner. He'd been doing events and keynote speakers for 40 years, and he gave me a piece of advice. Now, I didn't take all of it. I talked to my agency, and they were like, "Okay, this is good, this is not. But he gave me a piece of advice that has that totally changed the top of my talk that I can now sometimes get an applause break for. No way, and I added it because of him. So, you know, hard in the moment, because you are really.. and I had to coach myself too beforehand, like, come on, Lindsay, this is what you talk about, like, put your money, but it's hard. It's hard, and especially, I don't know, I think there's the fact that this person was an event planner, I think kind of eases it a little bit, but, like, sometimes when it's an audience member, like subconsciously, I find myself, like, do you know what's best, like, and then I realized, like, no, you're the audience, if you, it doesn't land with you, then it's then I'm not doing my job, so you have to, you have to, not everything is going to be like the most usable, right? I will tell you this, this is, I think, a really interesting, my therapist, because that, because that's me, that I really am like, I don't want to be defensive, and I, it's something I've been working on for a long time, and my therapist has me. She says when something is coming towards me, and I'm feeling.. I feel it in my body defensiveness, like I feel.. I feel tight, and I feel like a surge of, like, I don't know.. something. Is it anxiety? Maybe I just feel my body.. like, like it's like a flight or fight. Yes, that's really what it is. And she said to me, she's like, "Can you say the word soften to yourself in your brain? And I have to tell you, I now use it so much, and this is what will happen if you're, if you were giving advice, I'll end up being like, "Soften, like, I'll like, in my head, I'll be like, fur listeners, softening in her hair, try, because my body needs it, like, and, but I have found it to be the most useful tool, so much so that I'm like, I'm sharing it with the people, I'm gonna take, well, so when you were just talking about that, I felt my body get more tense in mirroring you, basically. And then, when you said soften, yeah, some muscles relax, that's so powerful. Great, and it's been only this was like two months, I've been using it, but I find it to be very, very useful. Well, it just helps you like kind of reset your nervous system a little bit. That's such a great mantra. That's okay. Just soften. Oh, good for you. Thank you for sharing that with us. Credit my therapist. I want to be thank you to Lindsay's therapist for sharing that with us, because that's incredible. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back. We are back on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. We've talked about this before, but we both spent about 20 years in this one singular focus, you with SNL, me with racing, and you've been, you were building it, nurturing it, growing it, absolutely kicking ass in it, and then chose to step away, and this was about the same time for us, I think, around 2022 right? Like that was about that time. So I've talked about how I found that transition exceptionally challenging in ways that I was not expecting. How was it for you and. Mean that partially, and like, how did you know that it was time to step away, but then also, how did you react to it once you did the stepping away, and like, you were kind of like onto the next thing. I mean, it was a long process for me. Okay, you know, and if I'm honest, it was like, you know, I think the healing and the unwinding of a journey after being in some place for 20 years, where it was your entire identity and everything, single thing you aimed for from the age of 22 to 42 It's, it doesn't just like you're not just like, okay, great, it's done, goodbye, you know. So, I would say, How did I know to leave? I mean, my job was going to be changing, and I kind of was like I just very quickly was like the words like you need to, it's time to bet on yourself came into my head, and and very quickly I made the decision to just be like okay, it's over, and it was it was one of the hardest things I knew I had to do, it I also had been through enough hard things that I kept saying to myself, like, this is really hard, but you will get through it, like I knew that to be true, so I wasn't like I was panicking, like, oh my god, but I did, you know, like, but our minds are really, really hard, right, our brains can really be our worst enemy, and, and the things that my brain was telling me, and like, I didn't really know what I was, I didn't have a plan. I didn't.. I didn't have the next thing figured out. Luckily, at that moment, Alex Rodriguez asked me to do the documentary with him, which the timing was great. I mean, obviously it wasn't a full-time thing, but at least gave me something to be like, okay, the start of something, and it was.. I always say it was a wobbly time for me. It was just.. it was, you know, who's gonna.. and you do.. you lose.. like, you get surprised by people who don't write you back or don't call you.. or.. or don't.. you know.. I remember, I remember sending someone who was really dear to me at the show, like a really long, loving, like loving email, and never hearing back, and like those things really hard, you know. I remember my mom feeling really hurt about that one, because it was someone really close to me, and but I had to just be like, we need to move. It's like it's time to move on. It's like it's like we can't, that's more about her than it is about me, like I have to just let that go. And so I learned to like heal through like pain and sorrow, and I had to let go of like that feeling of like SNL is my everything, you know. There was a.. I didn't watch the show for a very long time, I couldn't.. it was just like too weird to me. And now it's like I was at the Rainbow Room two weeks ago, there was a Bat Mitzvah.. I went to Bat Mitzvah at the Rainbow room, and there was a show going on, and I walked in, by the way, it's black tie. Walked in at 7o'clock on a Saturday, and I said to my husband, I was like, oh my god, I used to be down here at 7pm giving out dress rehearsal tickets, and I walked in, and one of the security guards is like, Lindsay, are you here to see the show? And I was like, I've seen enough, thank you, but I'm like, can you remind me where the rainbow room is, and like, I, I all of a sudden was like in the building of the place where everything unfolded for me for 20 years, and I just remember thinking like I'm where I'm supposed to be, like I am now with friends up on the top of the building, and I'm not producing the show, and I'm, but I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, and it felt really good to not feel like, oh, I should be any.. I just.. I was like, oh, this is this is right for me right now. Well, I'm so glad you got to that point, but it sounds like it went home and watched the show live. I was like, I was like, oh my god, Olivia Rodrigo. I was just like, I thought the first time that you had seen some.. I had watched some things, but like, I'd never gone home, and like, watch, I mean, I was always at the show, right? And so I actually like sat there and watched the show, and it was.. I felt I like know what all my friends there were going through, and like, you know, you really live like you just know these people, like someone said it was like trauma bonding, and like you have such a thing where you're like, I know exactly what they're going through, and, and I, I'm so happy for them that they're all doing well there. And then I'm happy for myself that, like, I feel like I am so grateful for that place, but also I'm where exactly where I'm supposed to be. Yeah, and I'm trusting it, you know. Yeah. No, that's so important. And so you've mentioned that you see a therapist, were there other kind of tactics that you just keep saying tactics, but were there other things that you really like leaned on or dug into to help you cope with the transition? Because change is not easy for anybody, whether you choose it or not, and even if you're super excited to do this change, but like, were there other things that you use to help you, well, I mean, luckily I have some really wonderful, like, people in my life, you know, like friends and my husband, and just energy injectors. I remember the night that I decided to leave, like, I remember looking around, and, like, six of my, my closest friends and family were in my apartment and. When you have kids, you know, and all of a sudden, for that many people to show up when they don't have sitters planned, like it was impressive, and they all showed up at my apartment that night, you know. And listen, I did a lot of meditation, a lot. I mean, I have a, I have a couple go-tos of, like, their guided meditations, and there was one on accepting change, and I must have listened to that one 500 times, you know, like I just.. I read a lot of books, I cry. I mean, I just was like.. I had the thing is, I look back at that summer, and I don't know if you look back at 22 that same way, but like I look back, I had a great summer, I still had a lot of fun, I did a lot of fun things, but I also was just like I was really uncomfortable, like my I was physically uncomfortable at parts, like trying to figure out who I was going to be. Yeah, and, and, and, and doubting that what would be next, just like that. I had the ability, you know, SNL is so specific. Yeah, it's not like it's like, oh, SNL is like every.. it's like it's really one, it's one of one, yeah, and I just didn't really know what was ahead, so I would say again, just like sitting in the discomfort, I just like learned to get better at, like being like, okay, trust the good things are ahead and learn to be uncomfortable, yeah, and I'm glad that you had so many fun things, and I get that, because, like, I like when I looked at my life objectively, it was like I knew I was going to be starting a corporate job, like I was going to have a regular paycheck for the first time in my life, which was going to be exciting, and flip flopped, yeah, exactly, and, and like, be able to flex new muscles, and you know, my husband and I had just gotten married, and like, I knew that I was now going to be able to move to New York, like, there was, there was so much stuff that, like, was positive, but it felt completely overshadowed by feeling like there was no, like, how would I reestablish a purpose, and that kind of leads me into the next question, which you're on Jess Extram's podcast, and Jess is another speaker, she's wonderful. I met her in, like, 2018 we were both speaking at something, and so, like, have watched her grow, she's so cool and great energy, really transparent. I think it's really cool, but she asked you, how do you move on from something that was the best, like SNL, and you said something to the effect of how you can't recreate what you had before and you're not supposed to, and when I read this, I think we had already met, but this had stopped me in my tracks, because it just, like, was a bolt for me, and in a way it was kind of liberating, and it was also a reminder that comparison is the thief of joy, and I don't know, there's something about, like, my mindset, where I was, and I'm, I'm feeling pretty good these days, so it's like I'm feeling good, and but that simple rephrase of you're not meant to recreate it is again liberating, I think, is the best way to describe it. A little sad, but also liberating. And you know, I don't know if I said this on the podcast, but like Alex Rodriguez is, is really the one that summer of 22 when we sat down to, like, and he was like, asking about the documentary, and he, he, we talked about him leaving the Yankees and leaving baseball, and it was really his advice, where he was just like, "You've worked on this, like, like the idea of you trying to now be like, I have to go do that next to it, and then lane next door is like, it's so much pressure, it's also going to take away any of the joy you're ever going to have from building something new. He's like, just create something new, like. And, by the way, he didn't mean, like, I mean, I really did create something new. Yeah, I could have stayed, like, you know, I could have gone to, like, a studio job, let's say, and, like, but, like, let it be something new, let it be a new vertical, let it be a new experience. Don't go back and be like, okay, well, if I, if I have to compare myself to like meeting a movie star and becoming friends with them every single week, okay, well, for 20 years, that's a, that's a really heavy lift, and you're gonna be disappointed, most likely, it's not, and you might not even be in the same like life space, mental space to actually do that, because I was talking with a DJ on a different episode, and kind of this idea that you try to recreate the feeling you had when you were young, but you're like you're such a different person later on in life that you might not be able to get that back to that same space just because of all the experiences you've had and all of the things that have happened and things you've accomplished, like all the metrics and like the thresholds kind of change, I think you can do new stuff, but it's almost like, yeah, you went to college, so it's like I had the most fun in college. I thought it was wonderful. I worked so hard, I met like it was a magical four years, and I never thought, okay, like let me try to recreate that somewhere else, like I'm not going to have all of those puzzle pieces come together afterwards. It's kind of like that, it's like, right, you know, I really think that we get stuck in these like tracks where, like, well, this is the only thing I do, and you see it a lot. You see it a lot with women, especially around like my age, of just like getting either pushed out of their jobs, or and they're like, well, this is the only thing I do, and it's like, God, like, what? How did we get so narrow-minded about like what our skill sets are? Like, the beautiful thing I've learned. And post SNL is like, yes, SNL was one of one, but the things I built, like the skill set I built, and the like tool belt I have from SNL can be applied to like so many things that I would never have even imagined, you know, like we limit ourselves with this like these these limited beliefs were like, oh, well, I'm just this, and it's like, man, if we can, like, if some, if you would have somebody out, like, I remember thinking, or maybe one of my friends said this to me, they're like, all of the people in this room would bet on you, all of them, if they had to be like, okay, you know, can we invest in you and what you're gonna do, they would all do it, because they believe in you, and it's like, why can't your beliefs equal, like, how the way this room looks at you? Yeah, and it's like, we just put ourselves in these boxes, and I've learned now I've just pushed myself out of them, and it scares the hell out of me still to this day. Sometimes I like, on the daily, I'm doing things that I'm like, oh my god, I don't even know if I nodded this, but I just keep walking. Yeah, it's the same thing going back to Mick Jagger. Yeah, I like.. I don't.. I like walking there before I can talk myself out of it. Yeah, and you just be in that moment. And I think that kind of goes back to what you had said earlier about how, you know, SNL was so niche and so specific, like how are you gonna transfer that elsewhere? But it was similar with racing, like, to your point, like, what you learn is universal. You're going to have to be creative and intentional and proactive about translating those skills or using those skills to learn, or, like, you know, articulating how those skills apply to something else, like the idea of explaining how racing applies to a corporate career and strategy now helps that it's at NASCAR, but it's like you have to be intentional with, yeah, you can't wait for that people to come to you to be like, hey, we think you've got this amazing skill set, now let's apply it to this like financial institution, right? Right, have to be, yeah, you absolutely have to do the work, and you have to be creative, and you have to be confident in that skill set, but it's, but it's so possible. Yeah, you have to be really proactive, and I think that's like universal for everyone, especially in this like professional climate. Like, it's it's so hard, but I think that's important for anyone to identify what the skill sets are and really get after it to vocalize how they're beneficial. Yeah, it takes, it takes some real, it takes a deep dive, though. It's not just like, oh, well, I'm I'm great at organizing, and I'm great at events, and I like, you know, it's like you have to really think, like, what is my superpower? Like, what are the things that I actually like, like, and not superpower, not just like what you're good at, but also like what what energizes you, yeah, like, what is the thing that, like, brings you, like, where you could just keep going and going and going, and, like, that's the thing, right? Yeah, and I realized the thing that I did at SNL with the host is the thing I did when I was 10 years old with my friends, and the things I'm still doing today with all the people in my life, it's like helping people figure out, like, making them feel like they're great, figuring out their skill set, how they're gonna like, how they can use it, and, and, and make them believe that they can get better. It's like the belief, the inspirational belief of, like, you're here, but you could be here, and, like, you definitely can do it. Yeah, you know, and it was like Elon Musk or Emma Stone, and now it's like, now it's just a different, different type of people, you know. Yeah. Personal question, no pressure to answer it. Like, do you feel that this, like, that you continuously carry this over into your parenting style? My daughter would say yes. My daughter would say that, like, when she's not sure how to do something, like, you know, she comes to me for the talking. Like, her dad's really.. her dad's the fun one. She would say, like, Dad's funny, he's fun, he's a player, he's like all the things. I'm the talker, I'm the feelings person, you know. And I'm the one who's like, I'm gonna talk her through something hard and make her make her believe that she can get through it. And you know, one of the.. I, one of the books, one of the best books I read was The Curse of the good girl when my daughter was five years old. Okay, it's by the what, so many named Rachel Simmons, and it talks about normalizing feelings that are not okay, you know. So it's not just like, oh, everything was fine, because you know, typically parents are like, yeah, my day was good, yeah, how was yours, you know? Like, let's go back to you, and it's like, it's like, show your kids that you get disappointed, that you get embarrassed, that you fail, that you make mistakes, that you get in trouble. And I read that when my daughter was five years old, and I'd say it's one of the most impactful pieces of advice I got. I've now since gotten to meet Rachel, and she's an awesome woman, but, like, it's.. it changed the way I parented, you know, like, so I share with my daughter, like, all the things, like, oh, I really, I'm really anxious right now, I'm really, I screwed this up, I'm worried that I'm not going to do well, I'm uncomfortable because this feels out of my, out of my, like, wheelhouse, you know, I say all those things to her, and so therefore she, she gives it back to me, you know, we, and that part I'm just. So proud of, yeah, as you should be, and like recognizing also, because that allows her, gives her the opportunity to recognize early on, like physically how she's feeling in certain situations, and if she associates that with discomfort or anxiety or disappointment, like that thing carries over into relationships, into professional situations, like she'll have such a great radar or temperature. I mean, the biggest thing is it's just normal. Yeah, like I really grew up thinking like I could just like be perfect and everything could be okay, and that eventually I would just be happy, and no one tells you that it's just like it's not a straight line, and that you're you're gonna go all over the place, and that you're gonna have great months, and then bad months, and then a great year, and then a really hard year, and, like, and it gives you the resilience and the fortitude to get through those hard things, you know, it's going to, there are going to be hard times, you know, and, and I think, and you know, there is whole, like, post-traumatic growth, we do get better from things that were hard, we learned that we can get better, we can get through them, because we've seen it happen, and we build resilience, and we like, yeah, it allows us to be that much more proud of ourselves. And I talk about being proud of ourselves a lot, because I think that's like, yeah, what I mean, there are a lot of purposes for life, but to be proud of yourself is just so cool, because you, you worked so hard, you executed, maybe you had a little luck. Doesn't matter, everyone does, like. And then you like, you know that you did that, and to pat yourself on the back like that creates momentum to then go do other stuff. And I love that we're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be right back. We're back on, if I'm honest with Julia Landauer. I've.. it's one of those things that I've.. the past, since I left SNL, I've had to really do the work to allow myself to be proud, because it was something that I did not.. you don't.. you don't really feel proud of SNL. SNL is like very much like you're just.. it's you just keep going, something. How you just keep going, keep going, keep going. And so I've really done a lot of work to like.. when I get introduced, when I'm going on stage, I close my eyes and I listen to the intro, the introduction every single time, because I'm like, they're talking about you. Yeah, like you did this, like you wanted to go on stage and you wanted to be a speaker, and you did it. Yeah, you wrote something, you proud, you rehearsed it, and now you travel around the country. Yeah, basically every week doing this thing that you love, and they're talking about you, right? Yeah, listen, listen, you know, and just be like, yeah, I like, feel it, you know, like we, I, we feel the bad things so much, you know, when someone gives you a piece of, you know, something constructive criticism, or someone says something nasty, or you read a comment on Instagram, it's like, man, you feel that, and you remember it forever. I can tell you some really nasty comments that I read about myself on Instagram from 10 years ago, but why not feel the good stuff? Yeah, what's the point of it all? No, totally, so ridiculous, it's so ridiculous, and that kind of reminds me of something that my husband pointed out to me that I hadn't thought about before, because there were some times where I don't know, when you're a high achiever and you're going after a lot, like you have a high capacity, we both, we both worked really hard and used the tools in our toolbox and developed them and everything, and sometimes you just kind of, I find myself thinking, like, okay, well, what I did was not that impressive, and like, like, all that stuff, but what he pointed out, as someone who has a very different set of skills, he's like, it might not feel impressive to you because you're naturally good at it, or you have honed in the skills, or like, you have done something, or something in your DNA, that makes it feel not impressive to you, but it's very impressive to other people, just like you find other people who do cool stuff that you can't do impressive, and so it kind of just gave me a different perspective to not necessarily take for granted what I'm good at, and then to lean into it, because everyone's got different strengths, and it doesn't, I don't think it does anyone a service to downplay what we're great at, because it can be inspirational for other people, and I'm kind of starting to think now it's like, especially as I now think, as I'm past the active racer, and thinking about how can I help other women in the sport, how can you leave this legacy, how can you help other more people get into it, you know, recognizing what you're really good at and what you kicked ass with helps kind of give permission for other people to do that too, and I think that's really powerful as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, specific follow up from your SNL days, like obviously we don't want to recreate, we want to set new like new base mark or baselines and everything, but are there specific elements of that type of work and that type of lifestyle that you identified as something you want to continue to lean on and to continue to incorporate into this next chapter. Well, I think I'm like an ultimate problem solver. I think I came out of the womb a problem. Problem solver, you know, like chaos, like chaos and pressure, and all that stuff, all combined, and me having to solve a problem, like it's just who I am, like I, the higher the pressure, probably the better I am. I mean, there's been some moments where I wouldn't say you're right, my greatest day under pressure, not every single one was an A. Hey, failure is important, right? But I think, like, I think you know the other thing I've learned since I left SNL was, like, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't like this producer job where, like, I was really talent-based, and and I could creatively impact the show, but I wasn't considered like a creative, like I wasn't like writing sketches, and I wasn't like, you know, every day in the writer's room being like, what are we writing, what are we writing? I was more talent-focused, but I've always been creative, and so it's like, the like, the things that I learned from that show are with me, for I mean, talk about gifts, and it's applied, I mean, my, the way I look at the world, the way I look at anything production wise, it's just I'm forever changed, right? Like, and I love that the eye that that show taught me, like everything, single thing I see, you know, like I do performance coaching now, and it's like it's just with like CEOs and C-suite guys, and it's like it's, I mean, I, I'm so good at it, because of that show, like, and I, I love that. I love that that show gave me that eye and that ability to see. I mean, it's the highest level of creativity and production you could possibly work at, I think, because it's so fast, you have no time, and there's everyone's freaking out. It really has given me like such an ability, and I really love that. I love when I get to do that now. It's really fun, even the documentary, like seeing how you know it's a totally different format, but yeah, same kind of thing, right? Trying to figure out how to get someone to trust you and get them to let their guard down and be really great. Yeah, and and I love, I love all those things that show gave me, yeah. And it sounds like you love building, like you love, like all of that, which is great for me, because that's the thing I do. I love building, although I'm like, for me it's like when people are like people who build companies, I'm like, oh, next level, like entrepreneurs, I'm just like, yeah, I would really love to, like, get all of my skills together to one day do that. Right? I mean, I'm just like, founders are just, yeah, you know, incredible, incredible. But you're.. I want to give you some credit, like, you're kind of doing that now. It's a smaller sub. I call myself a founder with the women who work fucking hard, but, like, I'm talking, like, yeah, your product business, like, yeah, where you're hiring lots of employees. I mean, I'm just in awe of that. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's really impressive. And I think being out at Stanford was so cool, because, like, at those, like, late teenage years, you're like, oh my god, these students are so much more accomplished than I am, like, they're dropping out and starting businesses, and there's so many, and even you know, watching Ben do that professionally, it's, it's astounding, and so many pieces that you have to just make work, and you have to be good at so many different things. Well, also, I think the biggest thing that I find interesting is the your relationship to risk. Yeah, relationship to risk for an entrepreneur, like I have friends who are just like, they fail, they're like, "Tell me I'm wrong, it's gonna just light a fire under my eye. They're like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna, this company failed, I'm gonna do it again, and I'm like, yeah, my God, that's incredible, yeah, like I need more of that, yeah, you know, and I have to tell you, leaving us now, like, I am getting more of that, I am getting more of the, like, the, like, the bad thing, the bad, the bummers, yeah, do light a fire more, yeah, they used to, yeah. Well, and you don't have, like, necessarily the same kind of quote unquote security of the jobs. You have to, like, get creative. And so I do want to jump into what you're building now, because you, as you've mentioned, you do executive coaching, your keynote speaker, you've done film production, and you've been building Women Work Fucking Hard. How have you approached this next chapter and identifying those things as what you want to do? Obviously, you have a skill set for bringing out the best in people, so the coaching makes so much sense. What about speaking? What was kind of the impetus for that? I mean, I'll tell the story. I like November of 22 I went to a conference and I sat down next to this complete stranger at a dinner, and we just started talking, and I've always loved to be on stage. I mean, I was a theater kid, I was president of my class. I spoke at my graduation, like I just was always.. I always loved being on stage. In fact, my father, the first five years I was at SNL, was like, 'Hey, what do you think they're gonna figure out that you're the funny one? And I was like, 'Dad, that's just like never dad. So, like, you know, you just.. and I got to SNL, and it's like, you're a.. you're a behind the scenes person, and so it was just like the last thing I ever wanted to be was notice, like that's not what you do when you're a producer, and and so you just like you just blend into the cart, you know, like you blend into the curtain, and but I've always loved doing it, and so when I left I had I had this thing in my heart of like I wonder if I could do that, like I want. Know if I could, but I was a, I was embarrassed to anybody, because people would be like, what do you mean, like, you just feel like people are gonna judge you, be like, you think you're gonna just go start a speaking career, and I, this girl I started talking to at dinner in November of 22 we kind of both started letting our guards down a little bit, she's probably eight years younger than me, but she's a professor at a Stanford, at Stanford Business School, and by the end of the night I was like, can I tell you something? I was like, I feel like I could become like a speaker, and she had a speaking part of her career, and she's like, I don't know who you that well, but I can't, I think you could. And the next day she called me, and she was like, hey, I have an idea, why don't I come to New York, and I'll help you story harvest and kind of come up, maybe some structure for a keynote. And then two months later she booked me to do a lecture at Stanford Business School. And then two months later I got the agency, I got the speaking agents. What a cut to three years, basically from the day from when I first met her, she married my husband and I. No way. Yeah, and I love.. I tell that story on stage a lot, especially at conferences where, like, you don't know the people next to you, and I was like, you never know when you're sitting next to a stranger who's gonna completely change your life. Change your life. She is now like fully part of my family, like she is like basically like a godmother to my daughter, and she's changed my life. I mean, she has like.. and. and I couldn't say it's my husband, I couldn't say to my mom, or my best friend, I was afraid to, but I said it to a stranger, and she basically was like, "I'm I'm on board and I'll help you. That's amazing, and now I'm like on the road every single week speaking, so, so I can't remember what this, what the, what the question was, but I, you answered it, I love it, I love speaking so much. I cannot believe that I get to pay to go do that, right? I and that I'm in that it's going so well that I'm like that's how I'm providing for myself. I cannot believe it. Coolest thing I've ever done. Good for you. It's so exciting. I worked at Saturday Night Live, but I still think it might be one of the coolest things I've ever done, because I did it, but that's to your point, that's so also incredible, that you know we were just talking about all of the grief of leaving something behind, and like not knowing how you're gonna find that satisfaction and purpose with something else, and because you admitted it, and you brought it to life, and I'm so happy you said it that way, because I think so much of tackling your emotions, or your feelings or your wants and your needs is about putting it into the world, so like for me it's journaling. If I put it on paper, it's real, it's there forever. Or I do wear my heart on my sleeve, and I talk a lot, and so I'll, I do share with my husband and my family and everything my wants and desires and everything. And then you have to, then you have to confront it, and it's there, and it's like, are you just gonna ignore it, or are you gonna address it there? So, I'm glad that your new family member was able to help you go there. By the way, I remember, oh, sorry, I remember when they, when I booked the Stanford Business School thing, the professor, it wasn't her, it was another woman, and she was like, do you want to just do a like a fireside chat, and that would have been the easy thing, that's what I would have normally been like, yeah, yeah, because I could do that, like, with my eyes closed, right, but I was like, no, I want to have to write a lecture, I want to write, I want to have to write a one hour lecture, because I needed, I needed the reason to start, yeah, and so that was the start, and in fact, the structure of that first talk I gave at Stanford is still the structure of, you know, of the, it's changed a ton since then, but the structure is from that first talk. Let me tell you, I didn't know that Stanford was going to be such a unifying factor between us as well, because, like, I gave a TEDx talk at Stanford, and that's what kick-started my career, and I got to work with a coach, and, like, they provided the coach, so, but she helped me storytell, and literally, the first story, like, the first, like, formal story that I told in that TEDx talk, I open all my keynotes with it, and that same style, it's to your point, evolved. I speak a lot slower on stage now. I don't sound like a nervous 2222 year old who was on stage, but isn't that so powerful? Because you find your style, and I think that's what's so cool about, I'm sure, most performing, but speaking in general, is like you shouldn't be like someone else, necessarily, like if you're there to do specifically like technical training for certain industries, like, yeah, you should probably be a certain vibe, but I think what's so cool about inspirational motivational speakers is that you don't necessarily need to be like anybody else, like the reason that you're cool and you've, that you're wanted as a speaker is because of everything that you have done to get there, which is unique to you, and I think really embracing that is so liberating and fun, and the energy from a crowd is incredible. So I'm so glad you're getting that. You're really like full circle, like behind the scenes on stage, so cool. It's been, it's been such a gift to create, and I, and like you know, especially when you're running, when you're doing a lot, you know, when you're in that run, like I've got that, like five and seven days coming up, and it's like also, what a badass to have five speaking engagements in seven days, I, it's incredible, but that one will be, will be interesting, because then you like really, it's like almost stand-up comedy, where you, I mean, I don't want to say, but it is, but because you then need. Like, oh, if I move this joke over here, let's try, and you start to really, you get so loose, and you move, and if the audience is with you, oh my god, and you try, I mean, I've tried some things with audience with good audiences that you're just like, you feel, you feel it's warm and engaging, and you feel like, oh, I'm gonna take some risks, and it's so much, it is like what I imagine, like, like the guy, all the old, like, you know, the stand-ups I know who would just go work a thing, work a thing. It's like, you do, you get better, and you move things, and you learn, even just when to slow down and intonation, and, like, yeah, it's been.. it's a real.. it's a great learning experience. It's a great learning experience. And I, I will often credit Andrew Schulz with kind of.. my, I have the exact same perspective. I think it's.. it's so similar to stand-up comedy, because you still have to convey a full message, but I give a lot of credit to Andrew Schulz, because he was giving a TEDx talk at the same time I was in 2019 so years after my first one in Columbus Circle, and I stayed for the afternoon session, I heard him, and he was talking about a serious matter, like how political correctness impacts comedy, but he delivered it with like such incredible humor, and I didn't find that the audience was necessarily the most engaged one I've ever seen, but for that, for his talk, they were so locked in, and to me that was the aha moment, like I need to somehow incorporate humor into the more serious thing, themes that I'm talking about, I need to flirt with the audience a little bit like there are those elements that I saw in stand-up, which I had not been going to a lot of stand-up before then, and it's so cool. It's such a fun art form for conveying a message and trying to help people be their best. Yeah, and you get to be creative, like you know every time you go up, you're like, I just rewrote like 20% of a talk that I'll do in few weeks, and it's like you just try it, right? And you're like, does it? And then you have to be like, did it work, and it's scary the first time, because I also incorporated a new theme. I did it for the first time in December of last year, and I was terrified, because also one of the more vulnerable was about change. It was about change, and I didn't tear up, so I was proud of myself. But, like, you, you have to not only are you delivering it, and you have to be in the zone, but you have to be feeling how the audience is receiving it, so that you can then tweak it and make it, but even better next time. Yep, it's such a.. also going back, and I like.. I always make myself, if there's a video, I'm like, gotta go watch it. Oh, watching it, yeah, go watch it, little things, and you just see.. also you see where it's slow and where it's laggy. I mean, you have it's like it's the part of the show, like from SNL, where it's like the stuff that, like, you have, like, I had to always read the reviews, I didn't want to read the reviews, they were rarely good, but I had to go read them, that was part of the job, it's like you have to do the hard stuff, totally right, one more question for you before we get into our closing segment, so I'm always interested in what people's team looks like, and I would assume it was one style of team at SNL. What does your team look like now in terms of people who are helping you accomplish all these really cool things that you're building? Well, I have a great, like, creative partner who named Alida, who does everything with me, and she found me. She cold emailed me three years ago. I'm a big, I'm a big cold email person, like, oh, I've had a lot of the work for me who've cold emailed me. And she found me three years ago, and she's just.. I run every single thing by her, and she's a huge part of my life. Shout out to Alida. Yeah, shout out to Alida. I've got, you know, my husband and my family are just the best supporters in the world. My parents, and then listen, my ex-husband is killer, and he's a great dad, and he really.. I mean, talk about somebody who has to support me with my traveling, and I travel all the time now. I never used to travel, I used to have a crazy schedule, but at home, but he supports, you know, he's always wants me to, like, you know, if I can do something, he wants to support me to do it, so he can, so you know, he takes my daughter on nights that he's not supposed to, so I can do it. That's great, and and then I've got a lot of great sitters, a lot of friends who support me too, and I need help, you know. Love that, love that. And I'm assuming agents that help you. Oh my god, how would I not forget the agents? I mean, my agents changed my life, you know, leading authorities, my speakers bureau, like, just completely changed, changed my life. They're awesome. Alrighty, so we're gonna go into the final segment. I like to ask my guests to finish the sentence, if I'm honest, which you've already done, but something that will can be viewed as wisdom that they can take away if I'm honest, oh my god, the drummer. If I'm honest, the thing that I find myself wrestling with the most right now is three years ago all I wanted was to be busy, you know, to like fill my time with things that I loved and work, and now I have that right. I have all those things, and I'm struggling with, like, being present and, like, really sitting in the joy of, like, what I built, you know. And today would be a perfect example of just, like, I was really struggling walking here today, like, I was just, like, my brain couldn't shut off, and there's just so. Much, and I keep thinking to myself, like, you know, nothing's promised to us, right? And we just keep it, okay? Well, tomorrow, and getting on that treadmill, and I'm just.. I'm on the treadmill, right? And there's so many things I should be grateful for, and there's so much joy, and I'm healthy, and I've got this great family, and I just am like, I'm really struggling with that thing, of like, how do I sit in my joy more? How do I sit like I'm really proud of myself for how present I've been in my the past couple years, but just not letting it all pass us by, right? Like, and I'd say that's my thing that I think every single person needs to get better at, which is like, like, what's the point of it all? Yeah, you know, like the things we want, we then get, and then we move the goalposts over here, and then we, and we stay in the chaos. I don't want to be someone who just sits in the chaos and talks about the chaos and complains about the chaos. I want to be able to like enjoy the fact that I've built something and I'm proud of it, but also like life's short, and like we should have some fun. Yeah, you know, this isn't all the things I'm worried about, they're all gonna be fine. Yeah, you know, but I'm just, you get on that treadmill, and and you, you get on that anxiety train of like, and I'm like, I gotta like quiet my brain and just be like, listen, are you healthy? You're healthy, okay? Yeah, well, then that's pretty good, yeah. You know, well, thank you for being honest about that, because I think that's to your point, so relatable, and I think there's a certain element of it's important to embrace the chaos, because it's there's so much going on, but to your point, to then also not be overwhelmed by it, and to not take it too seriously, you know, like, and just get to unplug, and like I think finding those moments every day, like my husband and I have finally gotten into reading together before going to bed, and just the really physical putting the phone aside, like calming down your brain, so impactful. Well, there's gonna be things that you have to really take seriously in life, right? And I always say it's like when those things happen, then all the other stuff I'm worried about, you don't even.. those that means nothing to you, right? But it's not until something really hard happens that you like forget about all the like stupid stuff, so it's like I'm really, and I'm, and I've done the work to get better at it, but right now I'm just on this, like, you know, I think maybe it's headed into this like busy, really busy couple weeks, I'm just like, how do you just like not give in to the like your brain taking over, you know, how do you just be like, this is all good, you're gonna go enjoy your five days and the total rhythm that you're gonna get into, and like the high that you're gonna feel. I'm zigzagging across the country, by the way. It's not even like, feel sorry, it's not even like it's like in the order, it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know. But again, but I say that, and I'm like, if you would have told me that three years ago, I would have been like, this is what you hope for, this is what you dream way. Oh, I completely get that, and I think I empathize with that, because, and I think a lot of people do, like, you wish for something, you want it, and then you get it, and you move the goalposts farther, further away, right? It's like, it's the nature of, I know, but it's like, it's stupid, if I'm honest, it's stupid. Okay, okay, perfect. That's gonna be the leader of the teaser reel there. Well, thank you so much. We're gonna go into a quick rapid fire. Do you have an all-time favorite SNL skit? There's a digital short called Iran So Far Away, Iran the country so far away, and it's just.. I could watch it a million times. I do watch it all the time. Andy Sandberg and Adam Levine, Fred Armorsen, Fred Armorsen too. If you had a 30 minute break to relax, how would you spend it? Fitting question, given what we just talked about. I'd call someone I love. I love, I love being on the phone with my, like, my.. there's like six people, seven people I would call. I do that a lot more now that I like walk to work and walk back from work, like it gives me that time that I like that. Do you have a hero? My grandmother, I've got her name, her signature on my wrist. She was just the coolest woman. She lived in 99 and three quarters, and she's just a badass lady. That's so great. What was your favorite industry awards show to attend, none of them, I mean, maybe the Golden Globes, because it was just like people were drinking, and like it was more of a party, cool, you know, you kind of answered this a little bit, I'll see if you get the same answer. What's a mantra that you live by lately? It's I breathe in, I am two counts, and I said, and then I say letting go, two counts, so I am letting go. Oh, good, I like that. That's that's in the past, like everyone, we have two mantras now. We have soften and breathe in therapy things. No, this is great. We'll give your therapist a plug, so good to let go. Last, if you're honest, what's something that you're grateful for right now? My family and my health, man, my health, but my family - I've got a really beautiful family, and having gone through divorce and not been able to imagine what would be in my future, now I have this beautiful husband and three great step kids, and I'm just. Like I'm living such a beautiful chapter that I never could have imagined. I'm so happy for you, and I'm so happy that we're friends now, because you are such a badass. And we will link all of your website and socials and everything, but is there a specific place where people can find you? lindseyshookus.com baby, that's right. Go book Lindsay made the website for a reason I love that. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for being honest with us. And go get 'em. Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, my friend. Thank you, team. Thank you for joining us on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. I hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed recording it with our guest. And if you liked the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform to get new episodes when they drop. It would also be a huge help if you can leave a rating on that page, write a comment, and share the episode with someone who you think might enjoy it. As always, thank you for letting us be honest with you, and I'll see you next week. Bye.