Episode Transcript

Julia Landauer 0:04 Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. I am very pleased to bring you a fun and honest and in depth conversation with someone that I have known for quite a few years now, and that is fellow race car driver, Gary Klutt. So Gary Klutt is a driver in the NASCAR Canada Series. He is from Canada and lives there, and he's a real estate developer, a property manager, mortgage fund manager, and is involved in the Legendary Motorcar Company's YouTube channel. And we got to meet back in 2016 in the NASCAR next series, which we'll get into. But I've always really appreciated his one, skill as a race car driver, and his demeanor, and he his maturity, and it's always very cool to connect with with people in the racing community that you vibe with. And for some career highlights, he was the NASCAR candidate series Rookie of the Year. He's a four time pole winner. He's gotten wins a lot of podiums, many top fives. He's the SVRA vintage national winner at COTA. He's done three NASCAR truck series starts. He's done one NASCAR Cup Series start, and he is a Canadian National karting champion. This conversation is really fun. We get into some nerdy, nitty gritty things around motorsports, which I think are really interesting in terms of mentality, preparation, specific race tracks, driving different vehicles. We then also talk about the importance of balance, and for him, how he viewed racing and how it fit in with the rest of the things that he's doing in his life, which I think was really admirable and a different way to approach racing from how I did. And then we end kind of talking about a lot of wellness and a lot of things that he has experimented with to help his well being, mentally and physically, to be the best that he can be, for himself, but then also for his family and his loved ones. How it plays in with racing and he shares some specific things that he does does to to really be his best self. So I am really happy to have this conversation, and I hope you enjoy. Gary, thank you so much for joining me on, If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer?

Gary Klutt 2:06 Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

Julia Landauer 2:08 For those of you who don't know, I was on Gary's podcast last year. I believe so I will link that episode in the description as well. But Gary and I met in 2016 in the NASCAR next program. And before we get into that, Gary, can you just give a snapshot of how you got into racing?

Gary Klutt 2:27 Yeah, I think I was probably six years old. My dad came home with a...no no. That's ...we went to go watch the Barry Grand Prix in in maybe 97 or 98 and, you know, I vaguely remember it, and he said that, you know, is this something that looks cool? And, of course, you know, as like, a five or six year old boy, it looked pretty cool. So he brought home a go kart. And then for maybe one summer before I started racing, we'd go at like, 5am to the GO train station parking lot in my hometown, and he'd set up like water bottles and cones, and I just drive around. Anyway, yeah, started, started racing. So that was, that was the introduction to go kart racing. I think I did three snowmobile races before that as a pretty little kid. And then kind of realized that type of racing is pretty gnarly. Same, same with BMX racing I did before that, too, and I think my parents pulled the plug when, you know, we were all witness to some guy breaking a collarbone, screaming, you know, dislocated shoulder. They're like, Oh, this looks dangerous. So

Julia Landauer 3:39 four wheels are definitely safer than two or none in the case with snowmobile,

Gary Klutt 3:45 yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. So, yeah, seven years old, kind of the when everyone our age started racing, that was as young as you could be.

Julia Landauer 3:54 And where are you from in Canada again,

Gary Klutt 3:56 so call it half an hour, half an hour, 40 minutes west of Toronto, Georgetown, Ontario, small, little town that but as as big cities sprawl, we get closer and closer to the city every year,

Julia Landauer 4:12 right, right? So what would what were your local go kart tracks? Because I did some racing up in Canada, and I was on the Birel team with Enzo Chiovitti And that whole group. So did some driving up there.

Gary Klutt 4:25 So I started at Waterloo Kart Club, which was in Kitchener, and then went to Mosport, and so, yeah, and then running Ron Fellows, we, you know, run Mosport, Goodwood, Barry, Innisfil, Sutton, Hamilton, nice.

Julia Landauer 4:41 I think I've only been to one or two of those, but most poor I always remember being a really fun go kart track, killer

Gary Klutt 4:48 track, killer track, like it was spectacular as far as go kart racing goes. And you could run the long DDT track. And I remember being whatever, 10 years old, watching people go in 80s. And 125 shifter card since right a huge straightaway, like they were doing, I don't know, 125 miles an hour.

Julia Landauer 5:08 It's absolutely wild. And when I tell people that you can get that fast in a Go-Kart, I think it's so incomprehensible to so many people, because especially if you think about like, rental go karts that you can do indoors, or something like, our go karts are super high performance. And I think the only time that I had gotten really, really fast, I ran the junior ICA go-kart at Jacksonville, Florida, like Jacksonville, I don't know if you ever been there has also a very long straightaway that leads into, like a banked hairpin. And it is, it's so bone chillingly fast. And then I think it would be harder, though, if you have to, like, come to a very slow corner after that, and you feel that deceleration at Jacksonville, you kind of kept up a decent amount of speed going to the first corner. But go karts were the most fun form of racing for me. I think, I think that, yeah, so fast.

Gary Klutt 5:55 I kind of agree. And certainly the best competition as far as racing, you know, you can kind of pass on demand. No one was going to drive away just because the draft was such a big factor that so much race craft was learned by the time you're 12 years old.

Julia Landauer 6:15 Yeah. And something I just thought about was, like, people kind of will ask, do you like oval racing or road course racing better? And I would say, like technically driving a track. I think road course racing is more interesting side by side racing. I think oval racing can be more interesting, but when you take it into go karts, that's like the perfect combination of both, because you do have the technical components of road course but then things happen so quickly because it's a much shorter track. So you have, I feel like a lot more side by side racing than you might race cars, which is so great. Yeah,

Gary Klutt 6:50 for sure. I remember being in a full size car for the first time on a road course, and it was, you know, so much about just trying to trying to squeeze a lap time out. And every once in a while you get an opportunity to pass but it was a big adjustment, right?

Julia Landauer 7:08 So, when did you move from go karting to cars? The

Gary Klutt 7:12 in I guess I was 14 years old and you could do the Bridgestone in a Formula 2000 the Bridgetown Racing School at most port. Oh, yeah. So you could do that. So I did that. And then I think, you know, whatever one want to race out of it or something. And did a handful of races there. But then, as far as actually, actually racing, I did a few dirt modified races when I was 15, and that was my first time in a full, full size car. First time seeing a dirt oval was warm ups.

Julia Landauer 7:50 I've never driven on dirt. What, what's the biggest difference? I guess, for you, if you could name one big difference between dirt and asphalt?

Gary Klutt 8:01 Yeah, I think just how violent it is really, you know, it's, it's more akin to to racing dirt bikes than, like, you know, you're hanging onto the wheel, you're being bucked around just to end, how fast everything happens, how short the races are. It's just, you know, full throttle. I probably still haven't done enough of it to really know all the nuances.

Julia Landauer 8:30 So, but was it, would they have been open wheel modifieds? I guess that's,

Gary Klutt 8:34 yeah. So, like, there was the fenders on the on the rear end, but and then the front wheels were open. Okay.

Julia Landauer 8:39 Okay, cool. So you, I believe, have done the most racing in the Canadian NASCAR series, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So when did you get started there?

Gary Klutt 8:49 So my dad started racing right around the time I was born, and just as a nature of the business, he he started vintage racing, and then in the 2000s he, I don't know how he got talked into it, he bought an old Roush Trans Am car, and so he did a couple Trans Am races. So he was always kind of looking to do a handful of road course races every year that were competitive, because he had a taste of the Trans Am series. And in, you know, 99, 2000, 2001 it was still pretty competitive. So he bought an old cast car in 2007 became the Canadian NASCAR series. And then he had always rented cars out and built cars for customers of his for vintage racing. And one of his good customers who vintage race with him had the racing bug, you know, has since run Le Mans is sick for it said, Hey, build me. Build me. Another one of those. We're going to go race most port. We're going to race Three Rivers. We're going to race Montreal with the bush series. And the Toronto Indy. So my dad built that car, and I guess the first year or second year he was running it, he couldn't make the most portrays. And I think I was 16, and it was like a month leading up to it, my dad said, Hey, like, the car's sitting here. Do you want to jump in it and like, oh, shit, I hadn't done I'd been in one of those cars once before. Obviously, I said yes, but man, I felt like I was in over my head.

Julia Landauer 10:36 Oh, I can imagine. So, okay, so you jumped into this car. Did you have any test days before that first race? Or was it practice, for the most part race? I

Gary Klutt 10:45 had run No, no test days. I had run a regional race in my dad's car, which was a an older car and different car before that. And that was, that was kind of it. So

Julia Landauer 10:59 for our non racing listeners, like the gravity of how absolutely terrifying This is, especially for a young kid, like a 16 year old, but for anyone jumping into a new type of car with really tough competition that has been racing at these tracks for years, like it is so overwhelming, and I feel like you don't even like you have no idea how challenging it's going To be, until you get there and then you rise there, and then you rise to the occasion, because you're a competitor, and you figure it out. But I have to imagine that it was a stressful qualifying session. Qualifying always the scariest for me. It's like, okay, this is going to set you up for the race. How are you going to do? So how was that first race for you?

Gary Klutt 11:37 You know, it was decent. I remember going out for practice and on the outlap, like, two guys passed me sideways through corner two around the outside, and I'm like, geez, oh, oh, these guys are animals, like, there's, you know, so I think I practiced decent, and I didn't put much pressure on myself as far as qualifying, because I didn't have, you know, very high expectations. And I probably qualified, you know, mid pack there and running, I got more and more comfortable, and, you know, there was probably some attrition. And I was up to, I was running fifth, I was running in the top five, with like 11 to go nice. And then I just, I drove off through a puddle coming out of corner five, up the back straight, and finished 11th. So after that, I go, you know, I'm saying to myself, Okay, you know, I think I can do this,

Julia Landauer 12:33 right? That's a huge vote of confidence. So then, did you immediately, kind of step into racing full time, or did you have to convince no dad to let you do that? No

Gary Klutt 12:45 and and, you know, my dad was super supportive of us racing go karts. We never traveled to the States or anything. We kind of did our six or seven races here in Canada. Supported us. And then, you know, he, he wanted to focus on his racing by the time we turned 15, 16, and could drive ourselves to the go kart track. So if we wanted to continue racing, it was kind of up to us to figure it out. And you know, I'm sure he still paid the tire bill at the go kart track. But, you know, 16 years old, I was going to the go kart track by myself, and it was a lot of fun.

Julia Landauer 13:21 And are you doing all the wrenching on your go kart and everything, or did, oh yeah, the little team? Okay, okay,

Gary Klutt 13:25 yeah, no, it's just me, like, and, you know, before that, it was me and my dad and my brother. But you know, I think maybe for, you know, if we went to the Canadian nationals, he'd obviously, he'd come and we'd hire a guy to help out, because it's a pretty big weekend. But as far as as racing a car goes, it was, it was on me to find some sponsorship and to make it happen. So that was kind of one kind of freebie deal there that was probably already funded. And I found a little bit of sponsorship. I got, I got the golf course I was working at to sponsor me. They were on the hood. But after that, I think I raced once more in that series. And then I think by maybe by fluke, had a customer of the business out to a track day, and he was looking at a c6 Corvette, and I took him around the track for a hot lap, and he he came in and he had a pretty big business, and he said, Wow, do you need sponsorship to go racing? That is the dream. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't, you know, anything crazy, but I put together a proposal and and I had done a couple beforehand. So this was 2000 2013 2014 I put together this proposal to do three road course races, and, you know, wrap the car and went. Three Rivers, ICAR and Mosport. And then I think, finished sixth that most port that year had those guys out. They were happy, and, you know, kind of priming them. And they were, they were keen to do some more racing the next year. And the next year them and a few other sponsors, I worked my butt off all winter, and we were going to go race the whole season, and that

Julia Landauer 15:23 was in 2014 or 2018 2015 Yeah, okay, amazing that, I mean. And just to emphasize, like, getting sponsorship for motorsports at a grassroots level or at a more regional level, not the three national series in NASCAR especially, is so challenging, and it's, you know, having to be creative on what the ROI is, and really like thinking about the sponsors that you're pitching. So that is kudos to you. That is so impressive. So you raced full time in 2015 we met in 2016 for NASCAR next, and I found something that I want to show you from NASCAR next. For those of you, just listening. There's a poster that was made of the NASCAR next class, which is Harrison Burton, Colin Cabre, Spencer Davis, Alon Day, Tyler Dipple, Todd Gilliland, Matt Tifft, Ty Majeski, me, Gary Klutt and Noah Gragson. And it's a fun little hero card. And then we've got the serious personality pose. It is very fun. So this was a program that NASCAR did for quite a few years to try to kind of help identify up and coming talent. And I thought our class was so interesting because we had such a diverse geographic representation between you and Canada and along in Israel. And I'll be honest, when I saw this poster, actually, someone at the NASCAR R&D center put it on my desk. But when I saw, like, Harrison and Noah and Todd and all these guys who, you know, we were all pretty comparable. And like, they're open the cup series, and it's like, you know what we were, we were hot shots too, at one time, that was, it was fun,

Gary Klutt 16:59 yep, yep, no, that was, that was a that was a lot of fun. And I, I didn't know what the NASCAR next deal was when I, when I got the phone call,

Julia Landauer 17:07 yeah, no, I did not know I had, I think I heard some of it, but I didn't know what it entailed at all. And I thought, I mean, it was cool to, at the very least, get a glimpse of what kind of goes into some of the other elements of racing, for

Gary Klutt 17:22 sure, for sure. And it was, it was my first like, I had run one full season before that, and I wasn't thinking about, you know, going down to the States or making it to cop or anything like that, and then to go down and hang out with all you guys racing the K&N series and see how. You know everyone had this kinda, not explicitly, but you could tell everyone kind of had this plan that they were, you know, going to try and make it to the Cup Series. Oh yeah, yeah, it was a different world than than the Canadian series. That

Julia Landauer 17:58 is really interesting to hear because, like, I definitely thought I was going to make it to cup until like, 2020, and, like, then it finally hit me. It's like, you know what? This isn't going to happen, at least not, you know, not, not organically and but that is interesting, that from kind of, some of the other, other countries, other series, that that wasn't as much of a kind of end goal. Did you? Did you feel like your goals adjusted at all? Or did you think, okay, maybe this is a possibility that we can try to go do this cup racing.

Gary Klutt 18:31 I don't I mean, I think those two years, 2016 I I worked hard again and had a bunch of momentum from 2015 I won the rookie of the year a couple polls, won the first race of the season, and got a really good amount of sponsorship. And was, you know, on paper, making making good money, but, you know, we're gonna put it all back into the car. I've got a full time job otherwise. So obviously, yeah, so I don't know. I guess the NASCAR next that was probably the peak of my, my ambition, as far as NASCAR went, you know, looking at everyone's plan to go race trucks, and after we left that, that NASCAR next deal, kind of the end of that season, seeing people have truck starts and guys racing for KBM the following year, and or during that year, maybe even racing in the truck series. And so I started to really follow it and, and, you know, think about the possibility and start pitching truck series stuff, or, you know, bigger budget stuff, to go to the States without really having a big internal discussion with myself, if that's what I really wanted to do. And I certainly would have, you know, had I landed a $5 million sponsor, I certainly would have gone and done it. Uh. You know, it would have been a huge learning curve. And I, I think, you know, I get to, I get to play professional athlete for a short summer that, that it is in Canada, but that's always appealed to me. A professional athlete's lifestyle is, is great. I think it would be very cool, really looking after yourself, really focusing on this one pointed goal. But as and I was still pretty young at the time, but as I get older now, like you'd have to pay me so much money to be away from my family for 38 weekends a year.

Julia Landauer 20:34 Yeah, I want to come back to this. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with Gary klutt on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer

We are back with Gary Klutt on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer, you were just talking about how you kind of started exploring potential racing full time in the States, going after that, but realize now that that wouldn't be the the track for you. What was that conversation like? Or realizing the lifestyle demands and just like what goes into pursuing that full time versus the life you're choosing to live for yourself now, what did that conversation look like?

Gary Klutt 21:17 Um, I think, I don't think it was so much a conversation, more than you know, thinking about the realities of it. As far as making it to the cup series, you know, you could, I think you could show up with a good amount of sponsorship and get a pretty good ride in a truck and maybe even in an XFINITY car. But in 2017 I was looking for a truck ride, because the truck series was coming up to Canadian Tire Motorsport Park, and it was a doubleheader weekend with us. And, you know, I'm fast there, I thought I had a good shot at doing it. So I was looking for an inexpensive truck ride. I had a little bit of sponsorship, and I called premium motorsports, and we did a deal for the truck race, and then they kind of floated out, Hey, we don't have anyone for Watkins Glen in our cup car. Why don't you run the cup car as well? So wow, I did that race, and in a, let's not a very well prepared or fast car. The battery fell out for practice in the cup series, yep. So I got no practice, not that I, you know, apparently, didn't need it, but, you know, and then the car was, it handled terribly. And just kind of that realization that at those higher levels, you're going to have to pay your dues for quite a while in subpar equipment, even if you're going to get there. And that's that didn't seem like any fun to me. You know, to be traveling around doing nothing, but that not being competitive, just grinding out there was of no interest. Yeah,

Julia Landauer 23:07 I I definitely appreciate that, and I think I had not the same experience. But you know, when you get in, when you're used to potentially being a really good equipment, and then going to, if it's a lower budget that allows you to do it more or whatever, like some of the headaches that you deal with, and then you almost don't get to focus on optimizing your performance, because you can only do so much with the equipment that you have. And that was, I think, also one of the tipping points for me. It's like, I'm not going to be able to experience victory at the budget that I'm able to get for a certain racing like not going to be able to at least run up front. And I think as any competitive person, that's a really tough thing to do day in and day out, just for the sake of being there. And to your point, it's such a demanding schedule. And I think what's interesting to see in motorsports also is like there's so little new blood coming in at the highest levels. And you see like even established teams will tap semi retired racers to come back and race in their series, as opposed to new drivers. And it makes for a like, pretty daunting journey, especially if you're not from inside the industry in the traditional sense of like a parent or grandparent was a racer or sponsor or team owner or whatever it is. And just, you know, I think you probably feel the same way. It's just like you want to feel like the work you're doing is paying off, and you want to feel like there's satisfaction in the result of what you're producing. Yeah,

Gary Klutt 24:34 yeah, absolutely. And, and we had good equipment here. And frankly, during that deal, I was able to find a lot more sponsorship for the NASCAR truck race in Canada than the highest level cup series race down in the States, just because of all the relationships that I have north of the border. So that was another point where it was like. Oh, might be tough to find sponsorship to go racing in the States. And it had proved that way, finding money for the for the truck series stuff, pitching the full season. So, yeah, I was, you know, I'm a grew up racing road courses. I have the most fun racing the road courses. Very happy to to be racing the NASCAR Canada series. And I don't think a lot of people outside of, say, the Mexico series or the euro series or the Canada series realize that that these series aren't necessarily stepping stones. They're an end in themselves for a lot of the people who live in these countries, and, yeah, they're an end in themselves. For the the corporate sponsors and the sponsors that that support us. It is the national series here, you know, and there's a lot of, well, you know, in the Canadian series, like, there's a lot of serious racers in that series that aren't looking to go anywhere else, right? They're here to race that series, yeah?

Julia Landauer 26:02 Which, I mean, for anyone who hasn't watched it, like is super competitive racing, and I feel like a lot of the racers have been racing against each other for years, if not decades. And so there's like, you you understand the nuances of your competitors when you're racing for that long, and it makes for incredibly tight, hard and overall, I think clean racing. I think of the Canadian series as being a cleaner, less less crashing series than some of the other NASCAR series, which I've always appreciated. And I know that's a that's a point where people in NASCAR differ, like for me, I think, especially with the road course background, it's like, you want to make clean passes you, you know, and in the Euro series, you get penalized if you unnecessarily cause contact. And so it's like, I love that, because it's like, okay, you got to prove yourself. You got to get by. You can't just dump someone out of the way. But plenty of people completely disagree with me and think like if you got to do what you got to do for the win, even if that means dumping first place. And it's just like, it's a very different approach to the craft of racing,

Gary Klutt 27:04 for sure, for sure, that's definitely the majority of the guys up here. That's that's the sentiment. You know, two or three guys who have raced IndyCar in their younger days, guys who had race endurance racing at Le Mans, that run in our series, and then, you know, a lot of old school short track guys who don't like to tear up equipment, and that's, that's who make up, you know, the top 10 in our grid, yeah,

Julia Landauer 27:30 and I will never forget that I was racing in, I don't remember if it was in 2018 or 2019 I was part time in in the Canadian series, and we had a rough qualifying so I think I was, like, down in 10th or 11th. And I will never forget that Chandler Smith, who was running the truck race there, also ran a Canadian series race, like, crashed me out of 10th place, trying to pass me on the last corner, then went on to crash someone else out of, like, eighth place. And just like, not like, came in, like, guns a blazing, and crashed three people who are more or less series regulars and respectful competitors out of place, and it's just like this is so heartbreaking and devastating. It's like you're totally messing up the status quo of this series and making a ton of enemies. But He is racing full time at the higher level than I'm not so maybe it worked for him. I don't know. Yeah,

Gary Klutt 28:19 for sure, I learned that the hard way at Mosport in 2015 we were running the same weekend as the trucks. I had taken tires. I think I was up to sixth or seventh place. I had three seconds clear of the field every lap, like I was going to win the race, driving to the front, and Spencer Gallagher turned me on the back straight, and just absolutely tore me up for for no reason. And I, I, you know, learned a little bit about, you know, being, I guess, a little bit more defensive and and getting out of getting out of the way, but it's

Julia Landauer 28:56 such a crazy concept, I think, to like in the spirit of competition in in racing cars, which are so expensive, they're dangerous, they're big machines. Like, it's just, it's okay that you know at most port in the truck race, if you're leading, you're good, and the person second is close enough, but they're just gonna slam into the back of you and crash you out if you're leading. Like, it's just such a weird mentality that I'm clearly not a fan of, that I just feel like hurts the craft. But I think Mosport is particularly bad about that, because the last corner is a fairly slow right hander that leads onto a short shoot to the start finish line, basically. And so it's a perfect opportunity to just use someone else as your brake pad. Yeah.

Gary Klutt 29:40 Yeah. I mean the truck race, I'll, I would if I was in it again, if they ever come back, I just accept that that is the fact that's how you how you race that race.

Julia Landauer 29:51 That's wild. It's wild. Well, pivoting a little bit I had not known before, we started chatting. They throughout your entire racing career. In cars, when you're pitching sponsorship and you're, you know, being competitive in these series, you were also basically working full time. So can you go into that what you were doing first of all, and what you continue to do, but then also that balance of pursuing this really incredible sport while also setting yourself up for your future success and independence and finances and all that stuff. Yeah,

Gary Klutt 30:22 yeah. And that's a good that's a good point. That was, that's always, has always been more, more or equally important to me than as the racing or than the racing is, yeah, success and independence and, you know, having that, having that freedom. So I went to university for it was a BCom program that was called Real Estate and housing. I bought a rental property had seven guys living in it during to pay off the mortgage and or pay it down like just, you know, made up new rooms in the house. Bought another house my third year, again, just cramming people in there, and ended up with four, I think, four houses and something like maybe 18 or 19 rooms or tenants by the end of university. So I was, I was a landlord. There we go, yeah, doing that, you know, and then kind of got sick of all that stuff, not sick of it, but it was, it was a lot of work, and you're dealing with students, and as I aged out of it and moved away from that that town, it wasn't as easy to zip over and and work on the stuff. So sold that stuff, bought a property with a few partners. I'm the young guy in the deal. I'm going to do all the work, and developed a commercial Plaza that's now all up and running and leased out. And kind of just kept that rolling, and then just always looking for opportunities, and going back, I guess, started buying and selling cars in high school at with the family business, worked the summers. Only by university did I work at the office here full time, instead of, you know, going and getting a construction job or something, and bought and sold, you know, 15 to 20 cars a summer, and did that as well during university, and kind of phased out to that. Always did that, and then slowly phased that out as the real estate stuff got more demanding for my time? Yeah.

Julia Landauer 32:42 So what would you say in your family's company is legendary MotorCar Company, and you've done TV work, and you know, content work for them. Side question, what's been the coolest car that you've or the most memorable car that you've driven as part of that work?

Gary Klutt 32:58 There's, there's a so many cool cars, I know, and they're all cool for different reasons. I think it was probably pretty recently we my dad, my brother and myself took a 1964 GT 40 prototype car to the Le Mans classic weekend. Oh, wow. That was two summers ago or last summer, and that was, you know, just a bucket list trip, going and racing at Le Mans at 3am at night, you know, in a period car, I had tears in my eyes the first lap, like it was the coolest thing ever.

Julia Landauer 33:35 Yeah, that's such an incredible moment, especially, like with your family, right? Like to experience that. Oh, that's incredible. So back to my original question, what's your split with legendary and real estate? And now you know, getting racing in White can where you can Yeah,

Gary Klutt 33:54 so as I, as I do less and less car deals, I had done the TV show with my dad from geez, for velocity channel. We started in maybe 2012 and went to about 2016 So did that. Learned a whole bunch in TV, you know, and running the production gear in house, and going to the editor suite, shipping it off to velocity Discovery Channel, and doing that for, I think, four or five years, and then now, TV's kind of trending downwards as far as what they're gonna pay, what the actual viewership is. So it made more sense for us to start a YouTube channel here, and kind of manage that. We've got a couple guys here doing that full time. We do one video a week. So that's, that's, you know, the the main extent at which I'm involved in, in legendary My office is here, you know, I talk to everyone 50 times a day. I still keep. Finger on, on the pulse of of the car market and what's going on, because I'm, one, I'm passionate about it. And two, you know, I'm still doing videos about it, and, and like to be able to, you know, chat with people about cars and, and kind of be current.

Julia Landauer 35:17 Yeah, that's a good balance. Sounds healthy balance,

Gary Klutt 35:21 yeah. And that's something, you know, I think I'd get advice from my dad during those 2015, and 16 years, you know, I think not that he was nervous ever but, you know, those are, those are important years to build a foundation in whatever, whatever career you're going to have. I think I was, you know, I guess 23, 24 at the time, you know. And if, if I went and moved to North Carolina and lived on a couch for five or six years, inevitably, you know, there's a long shot chance that wouldn't happen. But inevitably, you know, come back to a business a little bit older and without those, you know, kind of behind the eight ball. Yeah, so balance was always important. And, yeah, I didn't. I didn't. Thankfully, the Canadian season is so short and is 12 races long, even running the full season, you know, I'm here in the office, was Monday to Thursday so I could, I could keep everything juggling, and looking back like I think that was, that was super important to do

Julia Landauer 36:30 totally and I can look back and say that I agree that I think that that was more because I didn't. I didn't necessarily, like, abandon all planning for the future and with speaking and some of the other stuff I've done, like, set that foundation, but at 32 not pursuing racing anymore, to the extent that I was, like, I do feel a little behind. And so I think that that's a really special bit of advice to get from your parents to like, you know, think about that, to think about that balance. Because, you know, I don't have kids yet, but I know that you do. And like, like, when you start thinking about setting you and your family and them up for the future, I feel like it takes on so much more weight than when you're just thinking about yourself. So we're going to come back and talk about this more. We're gonna take one more break, and then we'll be back with Gary.

We are back with Gary on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer, so we were just talking about kind of balancing, planning for the future, and you have kids, and you know, a question that I get a lot is, you know, will you have your kids do racing? And I think about that. And on the one hand, I learned so many incredible life lessons. I learned how to interact with people that were very different from me in a lot of different ways, how to, you know, not discriminate based on labels, how to be in very diverse group of people, different skills. And at the same time, I also know, like, how challenging it is. And, you know, I've always pursued racing as like, that is the end goal to get to those highest levels. And so I think, like, I don't know, maybe they'll get into go karting, maybe not. And it's not a problem I have to deal with yet. But what are your thoughts on if you think your kids will get into racing,

Gary Klutt 38:24 yeah, I feel like, I feel like it might be inevitable, at least at a at a young age, because I can't see I've got one son and another, another boy is coming on the way, and I just can't see them. You know, being five, six years old, saying, No, I don't want to do that.

Julia Landauer 38:43 So, so you will give it to them as an option, absolutely.

Gary Klutt 38:46 And it's so funny that I'm only kind of remembering this now. But you know, we'd thank our parents after, you know, driving home from the go kart track, like, Hey, thanks for, you know, the weekend and all the work and stuff. And they say, No problem, as long as you do it for your kids.

Julia Landauer 39:05 Interesting, okay, you know?

Gary Klutt 39:07 And as a 12 year old, yeah, of course, yeah. And now it's so, yeah, I think they'll probably race, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm passionate about so many sports and activities. I've loved to golf. I love bicycle, you know, I've done at one race. I've ride my bike all the time. So, you know, my son will probably grow up riding a bike a lot more than I did as a kid. So I'm not opposed to any of those other sports, you know, if he wants to go hang out at the golf course all day and hit balls and try and do that, I think you know, you're going to learn, maybe not, all of the same lessons as you would at the go kart track as at a golf course, and maybe a few more bad habits. But you know, you're going to be hanging out with adults and learning how to. Of be respectful. And I think a lot of a lot of lessons like that. So yeah, I think we learned so much at the go kart track, and you learn so much about yourself and competition. And, you know, the the mindset of having no excuses, because it, you know, results don't lie.

Julia Landauer 40:21 Yeah, and I think to that point, there's something really special about the dynamic of racing, because it is a team sport, in the sense that you have to work with other people, and you have to be able to articulate what you need to a different person. But at the end of the day, it's you on the racetrack, and so how you drive the vehicle is going to determine more or less what your result is. And so the idea of that kind of individual sport, I think, is really important, especially, like, as you were talking about, like, the responsibility that you have to have. I also, I personally grapple with the balance of like, I think it was so good to be a girl in racing when it was really boy dominated. And like learning how to hold my own, since the world, like most industries, are still male dominated, and there are so few sports that girls can be competitive with boys in so it's like, well, if I have daughters eventually, like, where, where can they get something similar that maybe has a little more potential longevity. But that brings me back to the point that you made when I was a guest on your podcast. Your Podcast, that you now kind of look at racing as like a as a like, you say, professional enthusiast, or forever or something, that being an enthusiast of a sport or a hobby allows you to pursue it with no timeline, like you can just keep going and it's not capped at, like, this is your peak. This is as long as you're gonna be able to do this activity. And I thought that was so beautiful and such a great way to kind of shift the mindset for how you pursue things.

Gary Klutt 41:50 For sure, for sure, you're never, you know, I want to, I want to race at a high level until I'm 70. I want to, you know, ski at a high level until I'm at least that old. And you're not going to do that with a professional mindset. You're going to do that with an enthusiast mindset. And it doesn't mean you take it any less seriously, or obsess about it any less or train you know any less hard, or work in the garage on your car, any less it's just, you know, you're not, you're not trying to make a living at it.

Julia Landauer 42:24 Mm, hmm. And I feel like it allows you to almost reap more satisfaction or pride in what you're doing, because you're not measuring it off the goalpost. Of like, either you are winning at the very highest level or you're not succeeding, right? Like there's much more of a a spectrum of what it is that is fulfilling about whereas I feel like if you're pursuing something to be the high level professional at it, it's like they're kind of clear indicators on if you've made it or not,

Gary Klutt 42:56 right, right? For sure, yeah, and I probably still fall more on in the in the the Canadian series and the NASCAR Canada series. More on the professional side is, you know, I want to find sponsorship for every race, or else I'm, I'm not going to go racing, right? And I want to win every race. You know, we finished second in the last one, put it on the pole like it all that's there. But, you know, I'm old enough where I know now what, what my future careers path is going to look like, and it's not going to be making a living from from those those races. So, yeah, and then the other sports that I do, it is certainly the enthusiast side of things. But, you know, I think, I think it's I really enjoy showing up to races with the ability to win, not as a professional,

Julia Landauer 44:02 yeah, that's also kind of badass. You know, you just kind of roll in and still still running up front, which is cool. So you're racing part time, handful of races in the Canadian NASCAR series this year. How do you approach jumping into the car, if it's at all different I personally find it quite tough to be a part time racer. And I think most people say that because, especially if you get out of the routine of regular training or regular sim work or all this stuff, it can be a little tough. How do you approach that? Or is it a non issue for you?

Gary Klutt 44:33 Um, I think, I think when we're, when I'm racing part time. It's, it's only, pretty much only on the road courses, maybe the odd oval So I think that's slightly less important than that, that feel and rhythm of of running 300 laps consistently in an oval, I think you can prepare pretty specifically for. Or the each road course, jump on the simulator. The other stuff is, you know, I try and stay fit and healthy all year round, right? I'll ramp it up before the before the season starts, I'll get down to whatever weight I want to be. I'll jump in the sauna more and more and more to get, you know, to deal with the heat better, because that's something I struggle with so and again, like I said earlier, like I I enjoy the professional athlete mindset, even if I'm working full time, you know, sitting at home last night watching the new season of the Tour de France on Netflix. Like, just, oh man. Like those guys have a cool month where they're doing that even though they're suffering beyond belief. Like they go back to the hotel, they get a meal with all their perfect macros. They've got the massage, they get their injections. Yeah, and yeah. Like I, I like that, so I enjoy preparing for each race and running part time, I get more time to prepare for each race. So true

Julia Landauer 46:07 to that point, I was thinking about that this week, that, like, my former manager was really tied in with kind of the health and wellness community out in LA and so, like, I would do pool training with former professional athletes and do a lot of breathing work. And it's like, when you go out to LA your jet lag, so you're waking up at, like, 4:d0, 5 and you're just feeling so fresh in the morning. And like, I kind of want to, like, do some kind of wellness retreat where it's that thing, like, you wake up early and then you're doing like, multiple different types of training, or yoga or breathing work, and going on hikes, putting your phone down, like eating the super healthy, not drinking, because when I'm at home, I love drinking wine, so, you know, it's a little tougher, but like that, you just feel so good and fresh. And I hope to get to the point where it's like that level of like, committing like, two hours a day to your wellness and physical, mental well being is a little easier because I tried to wake up early this week and before going into an office, it's it's a commitment to wake up early to go do that.

Gary Klutt 47:13 It's funny. I hate when people say this, but I'm going to say it now that I have kids, it's a lot less time you should take advantage. And I'm not complaining, because I still, I can still take the time and do it, but yeah, I feel the same way, like that is ideal, if you, you know, had that two hour block to just do your routine, and a lot of it, I think, for me, anyways, comes down to your ability to make yourself do that. You know, you can sit on the couch and say, Oh, wouldn't it be great if I, you know, had an hour every day to stretch, and it's like, Well, you do, you just don't do it

Julia Landauer 47:53 right, right? No, that's super fair. And I think part of you know, I, over the last few years, have invested in more home equipment. So like, have the stationary bike, have the ERG, have the weights, but last year I invest, invested in a sauna, an infrared sauna that's in the garage, and oh my god, it brings me so much joy. And like, you know, to dedicate 20 minutes to just such a purge of a sweat with no phone, no distraction, it is so good and so healing and so important. And I've realized that that those are areas where I will continue to invest to, like, kind of have that ease of ease of wellness at home, I guess, which is a luxury. Yeah, 100%

Gary Klutt 48:34 it is. But it's, you know, it's so important. You look at at how important sauna is for overall health. I just built a cold tub in my garage. There's been one. You're so jealous, yeah, jealous, yeah. And it's just, you know, you never regret it. I've been doing it for, I think, five or six years now, every day in the cold. And it's, it's just one of those things that, at, you know, doing cardio exercise, doing a sauna, doing that, I'm a better person. I'm better to other people for it. I'm happier. It's just things that I need to do

Julia Landauer 49:11 totally so what are your if you could name a handful, you've talked about sauna, you've talked about cold plunge, like, are there? What specific things do you feel kind of give the most reward and replenishment that you try to incorporate as regularly

Gary Klutt 49:27 as possible? I've lifted weights and worked out in the gym for, I think probably since 2010 so that's just kind of a baseline for me. But when I started riding, I hated cardios, I hated running, but when I started riding, riding a bike, and cycling longer and longer and longer distances, that is, I think the biggest, you know, instant noticeable benefit is how good you feel after a ride and for the rest of the day. So I know. Cardio sucks, but I think it's important to find a way that makes it fun enough to do, yeah, whether it's cross country skiing, whether it's climbing up a mountain or going on a big hike or whatever it may be. You know, that's something that I've just in the last five years, realized how important it is. Yeah,

Julia Landauer 50:23 I hear you. I do like running, and it's but it's the same thing you get, like, that kind of mental escape, and you put the mileage in, and feels absolutely shitty during it, but so satisfying afterwards. So I'm, I've kind of sort of followed along with Bryan Johnson, who's the tech executive who's investing, like, millions of dollars every year to try to stay young and, like, not aging,

Gary Klutt 50:46 is he like really young looking guy, really pale,

Julia Landauer 50:49 yeah. And so I don't know if you, if you also kind of paid attention there, but, you know, there are some things that are just kind of, like, really out there. But I think at at its core, like kind of focusing in on those, those, like, base level biological things that we need from eating, from, you know, limiting what kind of toxic stuff we put in our bodies, and getting that, that surge of energy from cold, from hot, I think it's really great. And I think I'm, I think I'm going to put a little more effort into exploring some of those. I don't want to say woo woo things, but, you know, kind of more out there things that you can just feel different or like experiment, you know,

Gary Klutt 51:34 yeah, no. And I've, yeah, I've slowly, I guess, gotten more woo woo. You know, I've got a little, I've got a little electrical, not electrical, but a negative grounding pad underneath my desk, and I sit with my bare feet on that. So the idea of grounding is that, you know, we have, we're electrical beings, and we are designed to stand on the earth with our bare feet, and you measure with an amperage meter, walking in shoes versus barefoot, at bare feet, and it's a huge difference. So we're meant to be grounded like, you know, right now. We're not grounded with our shoes on. So it's just like a little pad that that plugs, that has, like metal laced through it, and it plugs into the, literally, the ground plug in a plug. So it is purportedly discharging your energy while you're sitting there. I don't know. I don't know. Haven't noticed a notice? Yeah, it was 45 bucks. So apparently there's big benefits for inflammation.

Julia Landauer 52:37 I believe that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, tell me other things. No, tell me other things that you're doing. I want to hear more of the woo, woo things. Yeah,

Gary Klutt 52:44 I've got a, I've got a red light for red light therapy. I'm sure you've, you're aware. I

Julia Landauer 52:51 don't, actually, I don't have one, but I'm aware of it. Yeah, yeah.

Gary Klutt 52:55 So I do that. I don't know about necessarily, woo woo stuff. And maybe to your to your question about what is the most important, and it's just kind of so fundamental, I maybe forgot about it is just eating healthy. And for me, I've I've gone I've tried different things. I've tried eating steaks only for two weeks, maybe four years ago, when that was a big thing. And then, you know, playing around with that being my baseline steak and eggs, and then what kind of carbohydrates I'm I'm adding in or not during the season, eating fruit during the summer, you know, maybe some white rice or whatever, while I'm riding my bike. That's going to be more carbohydrate heavy, but I've found, as a baseline, I feel best when I'm simply eating, you know, avocado, eggs, steak, fish. That's pretty much it. As soon as I start to stray, the further I stray from that, the worse,

Julia Landauer 53:59 well, on the quality of what you buy also, and again, unfortunately, it is an investment for people to eat more natural, less preservative food. But I feel like that, that mentality is, is so important, you know, we, at this point, we, there are local farms in around Charlotte that, you know, that's where we get our our meats from. And, you know, you going to farmers market and getting local produce. We are now growing tomatoes, and it is so, so cool and so satisfying to kind of just take it out of the soil or out of the stock on the soil. But yeah, but yeah, and, like, really limiting processed, pre made stuff, and it just it. And I think also, like, it's tough, like with restaurants, and you like to go out to eat, and even if you're eating a healthy restaurant, it the amount of salt and butter, and we do cook with a lot of butter. Husband's French, like, it's part of his DNA, but it's so much more when you go. Out. And I think that's especially as you get older and your body does not rebound as quickly or filter things as well. It's super important to, yeah, I

Gary Klutt 55:09 think, I think I cook with only butter and beef tallow. I think it's the seed oils, like all the, you know, canola oil and sunflower oil that restaurants use. Because, you know, you can have a piece of veal at home that you cooked in butter, and you feel great. Oh, yeah, same piece of veal out at a restaurant I had this week for lunch with a with a client, and I felt terrible, and I I assume it was just cooked in sunflower oil or something. And, yeah, big shit, yeah,

Julia Landauer 55:32 no, I totally hear you. The one that's tough. It's like, I know that I sleep better when I don't have any alcohol at night. And I know that I recover better, and I don't like, I don't drink a lot of liquor, like, have the odd cocktail, but wine with dinner is really nice. So I think that's the one area where it's, like, I gotta, if I want to be more diligent, that's where I can hone in on being more diligent,

Gary Klutt 55:54 for sure, for sure, I've gone down, you know, and just the culture, you know, drinking on the weekends, especially being in your 20s. And then now, the best excuse, and not even an excuse, has been having kids. You know, for the nine months before my wife's having zero drinks. Did you join her with that? No, no. Okay, I

Julia Landauer 56:19 thought you were about to say, I joined that journey with going around that journey, no,

Gary Klutt 56:23 but no, there's now. There's certainly many weekends now where I don't have a drink and I don't drink during the week, but where I don't have a drink at all. And it's, you know, we're just more in a similar routine. Monday to Friday, Saturday and Sunday look pretty similar as far as our evenings go, you know, being at home, so that's been good. And I think, you know, apart from eating that, that has to be the biggest, the biggest thing, you know, I have two drinks and I wake up the next morning and I know I had them,

Julia Landauer 56:56 yeah, yeah. It's a tough part of getting older, too, I think, and I'm sure it affects you equally. You just don't feel it as much when you're younger. But yeah, it's the sleep for me is, and I don't know how obviously, you're now a parent of a young child and soon to be another one, but before that, were you prioritizing sleep a lot as well? I've

Gary Klutt 57:20 always prioritized sleep. And maybe not, maybe not, sleep quality in any certain way, but certainly sleep like, you know, I all go to bed at 10 o'clock and I'll unless I'm which, unless I have something planned in the morning, which, you know, a couple times a week I do, whether it's hunting or riding my bike or something like that, where it's a crazy wake up. I'll sleep till 6:50 so I think that's a that's a good, good amount of sleep. I've been taping my mouth at night for the past three or four years now. And talk to me about that. Have you read? Uh, breath, uh, forget the author.

Julia Landauer 57:59 No, but I've heard of it, so now that someone else brought it up, okay,

Gary Klutt 58:03 it's a mandatory read. It'll scare the crap out of you, okay? And it'll change you to being a nose breather only for the rest of time. Like, oh, I believe that.

Julia Landauer 58:17 So, yeah. So some of the stuff I was doing out in LA was really heavy on the breathing, and then it was breathing and but yes, I will read that.

Gary Klutt 58:25 Yep, yep, very good. He does a whole ton of experiments on himself and sees changes and just all these things that you don't even think are related to mouth breathing, from cavities to Alzheimer's to inflammation, to the shape of your face to all sorts of different stuff. So, you know, I feel like I'm pretty, pretty much predominantly nose breathing now, but I still just tape my mouth at night, just a little piece

Julia Landauer 58:51 of tape. So had you noticed that you were breathing through your mouth? I'm thinking about it, and I kind of feel like I sleep breathing through my nose.

Gary Klutt 59:01 Yeah. I mean, I think I go to bed, all right, previously to that, I would go to bed and breathing through my nose. But, you know, I think if you're snoring, some people are snoring through their nose, but if you're, you know, you might crack open your mouth, or falls open and and, you know, and you'll, you'll notice, if you start to tape it, and then don't tape it. You might have a more dry mouth in the morning. Don't tape it, actually. Now that you

Julia Landauer 59:27 mentioned that, like, there are certain nights where, like, especially if I have a headache, TMI, for our listeners, but like, you know, using a mouth guard, a night guard at night, because it's, um, you know, I definitely clench and when there's stress and everything, that doesn't help. But yeah, now that you mentioned that when that's in there, it's not cute in the morning, it's dry. Yeah, cool. Well, we're gonna pivot in trying to respect your time. We're gonna pivot to the last segment. But I could talk about health and well being forever. Yeah, we're gonna pivot to the, if you're honest, which is the rapid fire side. Connection with a handful of questions. So Gary, what is your favorite racetrack that you've

Gary Klutt 1:00:04 competed on? Favorite racetrack is most port or a Canadian Tire Motorsport Park. It's just being Canadian. It's an iconic racetrack in Canada. It is a mini spa. It is, you know, where they raced the Canadian Grand Prix up until the 70s. It's through the forest. It's out in the country. It is a bad, bad racetrack.

Julia Landauer 1:00:29 And confirm it is fantastic. Which musical artist Are you listening to? A lot right now?

Gary Klutt 1:00:37 A lot right now. I listen to a lot of different types of music, whether it's country or it's it's the farewell tour for no effects. So I'm listening to them a lot right now. So a lot of California punk

Julia Landauer 1:00:53 nice had not heard of them. Check them out. What country have you not traveled to that you want to

Gary Klutt 1:01:01 Italy.

Julia Landauer 1:01:03 Amazing. And last question, what is something that you're grateful for right now?

Gary Klutt 1:01:09 Well, back to the wellness questions. I feel like that's that's an important question, just trying to be grateful every day for, for everything that you have, you know and and listing it, that's my practice. When I get in the cold tub, I start to say, thank you for everything that I have. And I start listing, you know, family members and, you know, go down the list.

Julia Landauer 1:01:33 I love that, especially, yeah, like family and those who are in your circle. It's just like you. I think great thing about getting older is you realize like how important that is, and kind of shifts your focus of where, where you stress, where you don't stress. You know what you make sure you nurture, what you can get rid of if it's not serving so that's so nice. Well, Gary, thank you for joining me. Where can people find you? On social media,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:57 I have a unique last name, so I'm just Gary Klutt at everything.

Julia Landauer 1:02:00 There we go. I will love them. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining me. This was a great conversation. We wish you a lot of luck on the races that you compete on this year. And everyone, thank you for joining us. And if you like this episode, please give us a follow. Share it with a friend and go check out Gary's YouTube and Instagram and everything, and show him some support.

Gary Klutt 1:02:24 Cool. Thanks for having me

Julia Landauer 1:02:24 on of course. Thank you, everyone for letting us be honest with you, and I look forward to seeing you in two weeks.