Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. I am very thrilled to have Marissa Hill on the podcast this week, and Marissa is an executive producer at Shade Studios, and she's a host at ShadeTV, which is the number one female-led channel on sneaker style and entertainment on YouTube and Snapchat, she's a student of the William Esper Studio and Dina Levy Theater Studio, and Marissa is a fashion model, a former NCAA volleyball player, actress, and broadcast and media host. She is featured in the ABC News Studios docu-series Grails, focused on the rise of hype sneaker culture in golf with Eastside Golf and Jordan Brand. She is a Rotten Tomato certified critic, which I think is so so cool. When we get into how that how that works out, she's a member of the African American Film Critics Association, Online Association of Female Film Critics, and many other associations. She has hosted film industry panels at Sundance Film Festival, South by Southwest, Tribeca Film Festival, and three times at San Diego Comic Con. She is also a three-time featured speaker for YouTube at VidCon in Anaheim regarding monetization best practices on the platform, which is incredibly important for any content creator. She hosted Sports Pro New York in March 2025, and she also hosted film panels at Toronto International Film and New York Comic Con. She is a co-founder of the Dynasty Sports Film Festival, the first creator-led sports film festival of its kind in the world. This was a really enlightening and really interesting conversation. I was not particularly well versed in sneaker culture and haven't spoken about the depths of creating on YouTube. So Marissa was very transparent about how she started her channel, where it came from, also how she knew what to invest in right away to be able to take the core content that she was capturing and be able to license that out later and to expand partnerships. She has always been very focused on growth and authenticity and being able to create a space for people who might be going through things or who just want to relax and dive into something that they love, like sneakers. There are very different types of drops that she focuses on, and we also get into what was so important from a team perspective and how she brought on people that she wanted to work with. She is extremely ambitious. They have so much going on as a team, and we dive into all of that: what she's building, tools that she's using, and what she's working on now. So I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it. Marissa, thank you so much for joining me on If I'm Honest. Thank you so much for having me. You bet. So you have such a cool background, but right now the main thing that you're focused on is that you're the executive producer of Shade Studios and the host of ShadeTV, where you are, and I want to brag for a second, the number one female sneaker personality on YouTube, which is so cool. And I just before we get into the business you're building and everything, what sparked your interest in sneakers, and how did you decide to then turn it into this platform? Yeah, so sneakers have been a part of my life for a very long time. My dad, I would say, was kind of the first sneaker influencer in the '80s. He ran with Carl Lewis, Flojo, the Joyner-Kersee Sisters, on the Pan American team, and he worked with brands like Adidas and Nike when they were really getting into track and field. So he would get boxes and boxes of sneakers sent to him, and of course, original influencer, yeah, exactly original influencer before you know Instagram, YouTube, and all those platforms existed. It was just people would see you on the track, and you were giving the brands also feedback on the feel and how they were working in whatever you know sport you were playing in. But my dad was very fortunate to really be at the top of his game in track and field at the time, so brands were really just coming to him in troves. And I just remember seeing sneakers, punk sneakers, and he would talk about his Jordans. And I was just like, one day, Dad, like I just want to be like you. And fast forward, I was an athlete as well. I played volleyball in college. I was known as you know the girl who's always in comfy sneakers, comfy sweats. That was my jam. And so fast forward to when COVID happened, I literally was just like thinking about if I were to start our YouTube channel, what would it be? And it went back to just kind of my bread and butter of passion for sneakers. Yeah, and that's kind of where the ideas just stemmed. And I realized there were no women actually speaking about sneakers. There were a couple that were styling it, but no one was actually out there with the guys talking about it, technicalities of sneakers, putting it on foot, and really like showing the wearability of it. So I wanted to kind of be one of the first to do that. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought of the sneaker space as being a male-dominated space. I mean, realistically, most industries and most most spaces, yeah, specifically, yeah. But like, but so many spaces are male-dominated. But I wouldn't have thought about that from a sneaker perspective. So that's an interesting lens, also to identify that gap to be able to fill it. So did you like when you? You were a kid and a teenager. Were you like collecting sneakers as well? Like, were you like really nerding out from like how you dressed yourself up or and all of that? I think you know, for me, my mom always put me on a budget. Okay, smart, smart. You know, the sneakers that I could get, K Swiss was like my bread and butter. Skechers was my bread and butter because she put me at this $40 price point. It was just like, and with her Nordstrom discount, like all right, maybe 50 with my discount, maybe 60. So that was kind of where I landed. But I did live in a town where there was an outlet mall, and so most of us hated it because if you shopped at the outlet mall, you knew that you got it there. And everybody in my high school worked there. We all like there was this one year I was dying. Gap released this sweatshirt for like 99 cents, and it just had like Gap 1969 on it. And everyone in my high school, I swear, bought that sweatshirt. Yeah, so we're all like traumatized. Right, right. But as far as footwear, like I feel like I started my Jordan collection through the outlets because we had a Nike factory outlet, and I was able to get Jordans for a really good price. Like you would never be able to get them around like $40, but that's how much kind of I was paying when I was first starting to get into sneaker collecting. But again, that was later when I had my own job and I'm saving up my own money and putting that aside. Right. I also wouldn't have thought about like the social politics of of like the shopping, which is such. I feel like that's such a formative experience for a young person too, like a teenager, and like how it shapes kind of your approach later. But so when you go into producing these videos around these, is a sneaker review a fair way to describe what you do? I feel like that's not all inclusive. I feel like you know there. Before I kind of started my channel, there actually even in the guys realm weren't really specific sneaker unboxing personalities that were also styling it. I was kind of that first person that was like, "I'm going to do this and style it three different ways, and I came up with the three different ways because I realized, like, sometimes I want to be sporty, sometimes I want to be dressed up, sometimes I want to be semi casual. You know, where I'm going in between having to be sporty, but also I still need to look good for a meeting. Right, and that's where I came up with this concept of the structure of how I wanted to do things. And no one had really been doing it that way. Like, there were other channels out there were their styling channels. So of course, you know that's what they're doing is styling head to toe. Yeah, but I wanted mine to be based off of the sneaker first and how I styled around it. Yeah, well, and I was gonna. The next question was gonna be kind of around that because the production value is so high for your videos, and I really love the structure that you have of where you you explain it, you go through some of the colors, and then you also go about how to style it, but also how the sizing fits, and then things like resale value. And I guess, what's the kind of research that goes into all the the information that you're sharing about each sneaker, like where you find it, or is it kind of like what your gut's telling you with the shoe? I'd love to know how you create that. Yeah, I think you know over the years it's evolved. So I did really kind of start my channel during a huge high in the secret economy when things were just like going into a massive trajectory because of the last dance that had played, and everybody was home consuming and watching content. I feel like a lot of the releases too were just so juicy. Like they were so creative. I feel like back in 2020 and 2019, and things always are changing. I feel like in every industry, and so I do think when I started my channel, I was really going after those hype products. And you know, anybody in the sneaker world, if you can't get the shoes, which is always the hardest part, I mean it's really hard to create content off a product you don't have, and so I did have to build those relationships in order to establish being able to secure certain products. I would say that my channel kind of blew up because of the Yeezy slide. No one was really covering them. They were kind of mocking them. They're just like, "Oh, these are like the jail shoes, and they're so atrocious. But I wore them for the first time. I was just like, "These are so comfortable. They felt like you were wearing a marshmallow underneath your foot. And so I decided to just do an interesting sizing guide because when I bought my first pair, the sizing was so far off, and so I was just like, I really think that I should do a sizing video on this and really just kind of instruct those who are interested in buying it. Because once you go after a shoe, you don't get a second chance. Usually on the hyperpairs, it's kind of like that's the size you're going to get stuck with. You're not going to be able to reach out to the brand and say, Hey, by the way, like I want to return this. They're gonna laugh at you and be like, "Here's a short credit. Good luck to you. Right. But I think that's kind of where I really got into sizing guides, and that video really went pretty viral. And then, you know, of course, the resale value of Yeezy slides just skyrocketed, where they were selling 3x, 4x times the price point of what they were going on the. Retail market, so I think for the more hype products, that's where the resale kind of intertwined into my videos of understanding. Like most of the videos I do, they're sold out. Like once I've done the video, so the resale would be very important because you're not going to be able to find those sneakers necessarily like on a normal retail website or walk into a store, most likely they're sold out. So people are very intrigued and interested on how much they're going on resale. So it's telling them whether or not it's worth it for them to even try and be able to go after it, or if they want to just kind of wait until it gets re-released another year. But I would say that's kind of something that has to do with structure, but as far as like the quality, I think we've always wanted to strive for super high quality. I would say my my first video makes me laugh. At one point, I was like, "Do I take this down because it's so silly? But I like to see the evolution of the channel and kind of where I started. Like I literally, I think I was like driving to go to visit my family during Christmas, and I had a bunch of Yeezys with me. And I think I shot at my hotel. It was dark; I had no lighting, and so I just look at that. I'm like, "Wow, this is so embarrassing! I can't believe I put this video up. But as you know, like sometimes you just need to put content up. Yeah, it's better to have something out there than nothing at all. And I just needed to get the channel off the ground. But you know, looking back, we've always kind of me and my small team have strived to just like create really high valuable content, and it goes back to you know Hulu with my first documentary Grails reached out to me, and they were in need of some really good footage that evolved around sneaker content. Right, and had we not shot our content at that quality, I wouldn't have been able to license that out to them. Yeah. So that was a really good just learning lesson early on is to always, always, always shoot high quality, just in case there is someone at some point time where they're like, hey, like we want to pay you per second to license out your content. Yeah. And once you see how much they're willing to pay you, you're like, okay, I will forever be shooting in 4K, like you know, this high quality for you, just in case this does arise, this opportunity again. So, did you know that, like, or like, how did you know that video was something that was worth investing in? Because I want to get into some of like the operational stuff of how you build a business later, but just while we're here, like a lot of times when people are starting out doing something, like you don't quite know what's worth the investment, or maybe you have limited resources and can't do a big investment. So, what was it that like told you and your team, like, yes, this is this is an area to invest in? I think a lot of research. I was watching like Sean Cannell, who actually is like one of my closest friends. Honestly, like all of the people I used to follow back in the day, they're all my friends now. So fun, which is so crazy. Like Roberto Blake was also somebody I used to watch. Renee Richie, who now works at YouTube, but these are you know how to grow channels, how to start from nothing, where to invest equipment wise, so I started literally watching and consuming these videos, never ever dreaming of meeting them, you know, in person, which is crazy. The fast forward, and you're like, oh, these are now like my small subset of friends that I have in the industry, and anytime I have questions, I can just text them and say, hey, like, what's going on here with the algorithm, but I do think doing a lot of research and just understanding, getting your bearings straight before you jump into something, that was super helpful. So I wasn't playing this guessing game of why is this not working or why am I not growing for this reason and trial and error too. You know, listening to my audience with them saying, "Hey, like I didn't have the greatest sound at first. I lived in the loft, and so super echoey. I didn't even realize that till you know comments were saying, "Hey, like maybe you need to work on your sounds. So I got a new mic system. But I was also doing lives at the start, so I would talk about my problems live, and people would be like, "Here's five bucks. Here's 10 bucks. Let us like help you get better lights. Let us help you get better mics. You know, so I feel like when you are starting off the ground and maybe you don't have access to the funds that you necessarily need to whether it's upgrading your lighting or upgrading, you know, your video, always just like let your community know, especially if you are comfortable doing live. I feel like that is a great resource for you to start, kind of like a little fun for yourself. Yeah, you know everything that has been donated into my channel has gone back into my channel. Yeah, yeah. So pro tip for all the content creators out there. I love that that that audience integration and like audience feedback, and I think that like live performers get that on stage, and to be able to get that with the platforms that we have is a really, really smart idea. And going back to what you were saying about the like the early episodes and the early posts that you did, I think something that I've heard a few different people comment on is that we're in a time when things are so curated and things are. So perfected that there's something really nice about seeing the journey that someone has been on, and that's kind of a differentiating factor. And then other people who watch your channel now can still see where you started, and I'm sure that's inspirational for people to know. Like, okay, well, I feel like I didn't do the best job of my first video production, but there's still this potential to grow, and so that must also just like unite the people who you have following you, and oh yeah, I mean it's just such a tight knit community that I have, especially those who've been with me since the start. I mean it's like I've grown a little family almost, where a lot of them I've known since day one, and they were in my live sessions and just you know there to see my my journey, but also just the fact that they've invested so much time and energy into the content that I pump out and put out there for them. Yeah, you know, it's just one of those things where it's like this give and take situation of like you want to give back to those who have given so much to you, and I recognize that just sitting and and spending time with me, like I want to make sure that I'm providing good content that you're going to enjoy. It's not just for myself, but it's also for you know my viewers out there. I really want them to be entertained and inspired. And if that is like just informational, where they're coming, you know, to figure out something they didn't know before, or even just if they're having a hard time in their life. Like during my lives, this one guy actually got stabbed, and oh my god, he was literally in an ambulance on my live, literally going to Bellevue Hospital. I was just like, he's like, I'm so glad that I'm here in this live right now with all of you. I just, I don't think I would be awake and in it and positive, and you know, my community came through, and they were all just saying, "Hang in there, buddy. So there's just like these crazy moments like that where you're just like, "Whoa, this is insane! But you know, looking back, I'm like, "I'm so grateful that whether it's somebody like him or just somebody who's going through a hardship in life, and they're lonely, and they just they need somebody to you know listen to and talk with. Like I'm glad that my channel has created that support system. That's so great, and to not be alone is so important. And kind of what you were just saying about like there's something for everyone to take it back real quick to what you had mentioned about with the resale value. The other thing I was thinking was that not only is that valuable for people who might want to purchase, but then also people who are thinking of selling, like to be able to help that. So again, just another example of like the broad spectrum of people that you reach, which is really cool. And so when we, when you think of kind of how you started versus now, there's obviously some of the production value differences, but from a structure or from a type of content that you're putting out there, are there any really big shifts or changes, or has it primarily just been like a smooth evolution and kind of similar to where you started? Yeah, I think there has been a bit of a shift. I do think with sneakers and brands and things that maybe I've loved or been interested in, like I've definitely changed over the years, and I do want my channel to reflect that, so I feel like brands that maybe I hadn't really been showcasing on my channel when I first started, I've now shown. So like brands like On and Hoka, those weren't really like heavy focuses years ago on my channel. Like it was very kind of hype driven product, and now I feel like the channel is kind of moving more into the landscape of product that's more accessible, whereas I think I was covering a lot of product that wasn't as accessible for my viewers. And so now, you know, also just product that's even more reasonable in pricing. Yeah. So like Skechers has been a huge brand I've been working with because you know that's my roots. When I go back to when I was growing up, like that's all I could afford, and so that brand is so special to me because I get to cover sneakers I used to own when I was a little kid. But also, again, recognizing that not everybody can afford a $280 pair of sneakers, you know, and being more reasonable, I think, with the products that I'm really showcasing on the channel, and understanding that there is an ecosystem of viewers that come from all different spaces economically, and and I really want to tap into all those spaces versus just like these are the hype things that I want to show you. Yeah, and I think too, it becomes a little less competitive. Where a majority, I feel like, of sneaker channels, they're just covering like Jordans or Nike. That's kind of their key brand. Okay. Whereas I've really diversified, and I cover so many more brands. Yeah. And I've created almost like a library, I would say. So when you're searching on Google, like I want to make sure you're coming across from my videos, no matter what sneaker it is that you're searching. I want to make sure that I have something out there for you to find. Yeah, and are you seeing that kind of slight shift in the content you're putting out and the types of sneakers that you're highlighting? Are you seeing that reflected in your followers and subscribers and the people who are engaging with you? Yeah, I mean, I do think that, of course, like I have my. Hype viewership, where I also used to cover Supreme very heavily when I first started my channel. Which Supreme, you know, when it was purchased, things I feel like changed in the retail decision making of what collaborations they would be doing, and I just kind of felt a little bit out of touch with the brand itself. And you know, for me, I just kind of evolved and moved away from that, but I do think you know my viewers just are there for me personally, and so I feel like when you've created a strong relationship with your viewers, like they're going to come to watch you. It doesn't really matter necessarily the product, which is great. I do think that yeah, there there is a little bit of fall off for some of those people who are only there for high products, like if it's a Travis Scott, you know, like that is a huge, huge name backed behind Jordan Brand when those releases come out. So of course, like you're going to get a spike because that's one of the the hyper releases. But I do think that other products that more that are more accessible are more evergreen. So those videos maybe don't start out to be like huge in views, but you look back two years later and you're like, oh my god, this one surpassed like a high profit. Yeah, exactly. So again, like going back to the search engine, you have to think about like, okay, like people maybe that don't necessarily follow me are maybe searching on Google for an Adidas Samba, and they want to know about it, you know, and so they're gonna come across my video and become a subscriber later on. But that could take, you know, maybe a couple weeks, a month, a year. doesn't Doesn't really register the exact timeline, but at some point, like I've really built myself into that ecosystem of being a very searchable channel, yeah, which is fantastic. And what you need to do, regardless of what you're doing these days, not only for SEO but then also the AI search optimization, especially for AI. I mean, just really driving it to understand too. If somebody is looking for, if I'm looking at how to style Adidas Samba, and it's a specific silhouette, like I want to make sure that that AI is bringing up my video content in search engines. So when it's like here is where we're driving that information from. It's coming from her channel, but also here it is for you to view. Yeah, yeah, no, totally, and that's super smart. We're gonna take a quick break, and we'll be right back. We're back on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. So a lot of people will pursue something they're passionate about and create the content. At what point did you recognize that there was real business opportunity here, or did that was that clear from the start? Yeah, I think going into it, I've always just had an entrepreneurial mindset, and so I think my objectives were already kind of set in place. But those objectives, of course, did change over time, and I don't think I really had an idea of when the money would exactly start coming in, because of course trial and error. Like I was going out there, I'm like, I don't know if people are going to want to watch me. You know, I don't know if they're going to care to consume the type of content I'm putting out. So I do think at the start it was more of a learning landscape. But I do think surprisingly, our first kind of sponsorship and partnership started pretty early. Good for you. Yeah, I mean it's crazy how it started because it was a clubhouse conversation. If you remember the clubhouse, oh my goodness, what a throw! I know it's a throwback now. Peak COVID, peak COVID. I wow, I had started a women in sneakers kind of topic, and I was not expecting brands to be in there, you know. And and lo and behold, major brands and CEOs specifically from the brands were in this conversation, and we basically connected offline a couple of the brands and I, and it's kind of crazy to think back, but it's everything that you put out there, everything that you say. Brands are always watching; they're always listening. And you know, to be able to go from a clubhouse conversation to one meeting to the third essential meeting, I guess you would say, doing a retainer for six months and then extending that to a year with only 5000 subscribers is is pretty crazy to think because I just that's so cool. You know, I thought it would happen at a lot bigger of a of a following count number because I feel like still it was the wild wild west at the time, not knowing like what number is the exact number for a brand to want to work with me, right? Right. You know, and and YouTube also, you know, that is I would say my bread and butter. They do make money obviously on other platforms. I almost look at as an ecosystem where you do need to kind of splatter yourself in all 100 places. Diversification, diversification is key, and so it was nice. It was like kind of selling, you know, myself as a cornucopia type of package of buffet. Like I want this, and I want this, and this, and this is you know how we want to work this out. But I think for me, like I really wanted to establish long term relationships with brands versus these one off kind of relationships. Yeah, and so from a business standpoint, I really also wanted to target brands that made sense for me, and it didn't necessarily need to be the top brands at the top. Right, but it's crazy because once you start working with one brand, it kind of becomes this like relationship where you're no longer kind of on the market, but you're out there, and other brands are like, "Oh, she's working with this brand so now we need to tap in and we need to work with her. So I would say it was almost like a snowball effect once you get in kind of with one brand and other brands see that you're working with them. Yeah, all of a sudden they want to tap in and work with you as well. So I think after you know that marker, it was just more of like all right, how many brands do we want to integrate into our content? But also recognizing that I didn't want to overload myself and make it seem as though you know we're only creating content if it's a paid partnership with a brand. Yeah, there's that fine balance. Exactly. Yeah. Another part was you know we had other objectives to just expand, not just from sneakers. So the the name of the channel was pretty open, in a sense where I didn't want it to be called like Marissa Hill Sneaker Channel or something because I didn't want to really corner myself into a position where I wouldn't be able to create content outside of that. So we've kind of created it almost into a production company. Yeah, and so from that, we've been able to do some consulting on top of just you know specific sneaker content. We've created a media outlet, so not just creating video content, but also editorial pieces for the brands. So anytime I partner with brands, I always have that option to offer them an editorial written piece by myself or one of our other editors that we have on our team, which is great, and then also just expanding into other realms where you know sneakers are a part of so much culturally. So whether it's movies, music, we've now kind of diversified and expanded and branched out into other niches that aren't just specific to seekers, yeah, no, that's great. Going back to your clubhouse comment a little bit, little clubhouse, tangentially related to that. Were you at all active in the Web three space around NFTs? And I asked specifically because there was so much, there was so much overlap. I think with physical goods and then memberships or tokenization for access to some of these, and I was really involved in like the like Women of the World and Boss Beauties, and they ended up being racing sponsors. But I was wondering if NFTs were huge in sneakers and and so many different niches. I mean, one of my close friends, Jeff Staple, who was actually one of the first like big people in the sneaker community that I actually interviewed had a huge NFT company as well. I didn't necessarily dive too much into it. I was aware of it, and of course, you know, Nike tried to do some stuff as well with NFTs. Again, little wild, wild west as well. Huge wild, wild west. Like I just am more about tangible products. Totally, you know, personally, especially you know when I'm creating my videos, it's really about the touch and the feel of a product and NFTs again non tangible. So it just like for me, didn't really work out as something I wanted to really focus and integrate. Though there was a huge spike at that time, and I know a lot of people went viral talking about NFTs. I just kind of took a back seat and was watching as it was going. And if there was ever an opportunity to incorporate that into the conversation, then I would. But I don't think that me personally, I didn't really like go directly into that world in that space. Yeah, totally fine and cool. And it's um, it's I think that to your point though that that tangible nature. And again, I wasn't it a little bit, but it was cool to see. Well, one, I'm gonna sidetrack. It's so much work to learn about that new technology and blockchain, just like getting onboarded and like with your wallet, so like it's it's convoluted. It's very technical and understanding. It's scary. You can spend your tokens and money, and it's just it's like yeah, it's definitely something you have to spend. Yeah, it's like a second career. Yeah, you're committing to for sure. Exactly. So, so as I mentioned before I'm really interested in some of the operational stuff that goes into building a company and the admin side. And so, as you've been building, you mentioned your team. How did your team start, and what is your team now? Yeah. So we initially started as a team of two, and then. During that time, it was a time that I really got into Discord and kind of the underground world. So I was in a ton of these Discord groups, just really trying to understand the sneaker industry because you know I hadn't really been hardcore into it, and I knew that I needed enough product to secure enough for my content week to week, and these discords were so helpful. I mean, that kind of became my own subset family where they were either helping me secure sneakers that I couldn't get on my own, or they would even send me their pairs just so I would have something to show content wise. So cool, so cool. I mean, for them to trust me with like a sneaker that's reselling for two grand, yeah, you know that's that's a lot of trust that you have, and something you have not met. Like we've only been chatting online for me to then, you know, feel safe enough for me to send it back, and you have that trust in me. But was your channel established? Like, could you point to like, hey, these are the types of reviews, like, and these are the types of videos I'm creating. Like, did they see? So yeah, so I think as it was growing, like this is like really just beginning stages of Shade TV when we were getting into Discord, where I think it was more of like, hey, I'm starting this YouTube channel, and also like they were some of my first supporters too. Of like, hey, yeah, I'm getting into this and they would kind of watch and follow along in the journey and then we would actually travel together we would all go to SeekerCon events and do meetups and things like that so I do think that Discord was a huge help from the very start of just getting it off the ground when I couldn't secure enough product or I didn't know how to secure the product, they were always there to give me advice on how to how to get it. And then also that's where I found my intern. He was actually running the Discord or one of the guys running the Discord channel, and he was just huge influence as far as helping to secure the product. Just also giving updates on you know things that maybe I didn't come across out there because there's always so much information of things dropping and what's releasing, and sometimes you as one person can't really digest that much information all at once. So it was super helpful just have somebody there saying, "Hey, like, did you see that this was releasing? Do you want me to try and get it for you? You know, even like in-store raffles and things like that. The Discord was super helpful, and like, hey, like, you should definitely go for this raffle, and it's going to be dropping in your area, this specific store, or maybe I can pick one up for you. Yeah. So I think that initially it was a very kind of small team, but now with the media outlet, we have about a dozen people working on that side of things, and then of course we've got the production side. So we've got a dozen people really helping out and incorporating, you know, their assistance there. Yeah. So definitely, teammate teamwork makes the dream work, as I like to say. You know, even as an athlete, you know, I always go back to don't be afraid to ask for help when you need it. And I do think that that was kind of a gem for me to keep that in the back of my head when starting this channel. Is don't be afraid to ask for help, and that's where the Discord came in handy. And of course, that's how I found my intern, and then you know from there building out my team with other creators that I've met. Like a lot of our writers are actual creators as well, and they come from different niches. And it was just kind of an escape for all of us to do something different from our day-to-day content that we create. And we all fell in love with the fact that we all enjoy consuming film. Yeah. So you know, it's just kind of one of those things. You just you never know sometimes where things are going to lead you, where opportunities are going to take you. So yeah, it's it's pretty incredible to see where it started and where it is today. Yeah, and and I think like you know being able to identify what kind of talent you want to hire, who you want to bring on, or collaborate with is such a fun learning experience. And also, to your point, like it uncovers things and other people that you might not have known at the surface, that then makes what you're doing that much richer. Were what were some of the like tools that you guys realized that you had to lean on whether that's like a CRM or if it's like establishing a system for hiring. Like, were there some of that like back office stuff that you were like this was really helpful to have? And it's fine if not. I wouldn't say so much. I think because we again we started out so simplified, yeah, and a lot of people that we do work with, it's more of like a friend to friend basis of this is a hobby and this is what we're all doing together. Even for like the production side, I mean, that just depends on the companies that we end up doing deals or partnerships with. So that would depend. What systems we need to use on the backend side of things. So I wouldn't say technicality wise we're we're going into too much of using different resources. Yeah, it's pretty simplified. That's awesome. And then like I feel like that then allows you to kind of work with so many different types of groups or types of companies, regardless of what's going on, so that's awesome. How do you, at this point, source your partnerships or the people that you want to collaborate with outside of the writing and from from the shade perspective? But you know, I saw that you had a Skechers partnership, then you put a lot of great content. Now that I know the backstory, that makes it that much more special. And but yeah, how do you how do you source these? Are you outbound? Is it inbound? Is it a mix? I would say it's a mix, but I do think it's it's almost like this fantasy that lingers out there where I see people just hoping that brands will stumble upon some of their content, and out of nowhere, you know, they're gonna get this crazy big brand deal. But again, like going back to the clubhouse scenario, that was just again something that was super, just simplified. Not knowing that I would have brands necessarily in that conversation, but understanding that you always need to, you know, speak to a certain level in the sense of knowing that you never know who's listening to you, who's joining in, yeah, and who may be a brand that has their eyes out for you. So I think for me specifically, like creating family-friendly content was very, very important at the start, and understanding to identify the type of demographic I was going after, but also understanding that brands are really more intrigued to work and partner with creators who definitely are more on the family friendly side. I would say, whereas some of the women specifically that have gotten into my niche are are not as family friendly. I would say interesting. So a lot of the brands, I think, in reaching out to them. You know, I've done a lot of, I guess you could say, cold calling. LinkedIn is definitely my amazing, right? Which is crazy to think because I actually did not have a LinkedIn before I started the channel. I know, I know, it was it was very bad. I had one, but I just delayed. Yeah, I guess I could say I had one. I just didn't take it as seriously. You know, it was just one of those. I did it to have my resume out there. Yeah, I, you know, because I had started two other companies prior to starting this channel, so it was there, but it wasn't where it needed to be. And I do think that just kind of having like your dream list of what are the companies that I want to work with? If I work with them, what would I pitch them? You know, and I think having that list and and really kind of going out and reaching out to them and pitching why I think I would be a good partner in whatever business opportunities they had readily available during that time frame. Again, I think a lot easier when I started because I was the only girl. So, you know, when you're saying I'm the only girl out here talking, educating on you know seekers in this aspect, lifestyle, styling versus you know there were a couple women who were on running channels, but we're not really like focused as a running channel necessarily. It's more some light performance here and there, and some light technicalities. But you know, for the most part, I think it was a lot easier to get in with brands when I first started because there really wasn't much competition. Yeah, but I do think there was a lot of work that definitely tied into you know having those conversations, reaching out, just being able to get that first call is the hardest part. Yeah, and then from there, really pitching yourself, having that media kit, having that one pager, you know, that really drives home why the brand should specifically work with you, you know, and knowing that you basically got 15 minutes to pitch yourself and to get them to really fall in love with you, yeah. But I do think you know Skechers, for instance, had reached out for something on a smaller scale. So this is like somebody who wasn't necessarily outbound to be reaching out to them, more of an inbound contact through third party agency. But sometimes you know when you work on something smaller, it can always lead to something larger. And I think at the time, what I pitched them, they weren't quite in a position to work with me then. But you know, fast forward to a year later, we now have such a great relationship, but also have maintained a long term partnership. Yeah. But I think that's the other part. Is sometimes when you do reach out to brands, maybe it's not the right timing, yeah, and so you do need to be patient and understand that at some point in time they could come back to you and say, "Listen, like, so sorry it didn't work out a few months ago or last year, but we've restructured our team, and we'd love to." You know, have you be a part of like these new brand opportunities and our marketing pitch for the year? So it's just kind of staying on top of the brands, and also the turnover is so high in different industries. So you know, you're always restarting those relationships from ground one. Sometimes where it's like maybe you had made a close relationship with somebody and they've now left to go to another company, yeah. But again, I do think you know, like Footlocker, for instance, was a brand I had originally reached out to, and one division, you know, wasn't really able to work with me on a project. But there was another division that was like, "Hey, we've got something perfect for you, and so I got to interview Coco Gauff. So cool, which was really that, which was really cool. So you just never know. Like sometimes you may be reaching out to the wrong division because a lot of these companies are so massive. Like Nike is huge. Adidas is huge. Even where you're based, I mean that could depend on why somebody can't work with you. Yeah. So I think there are just a lot of steps that you do need to take, especially when you're working with larger brands. But also knowing that sometimes when you are pitching, that could lead to something much larger or bigger. Maybe they want to start on a lower scale. You know, like Lululemon. When I first started working with them, they wanted to build that trust with me. So at first, it was like just going to an event, and then that led to a campaign, then to another campaign, so you know, and that started from like a close family friend who was like, "Hey, did you know that Lululemon is coming out with sneakers? I was like, "No, I had no idea. So I just reached out manually, you know, and that led to so many other things. Yeah, we're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back. We are back on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. You touched on so much there that I kind of want to follow up in a few steps because, like, on the one hand, I really liked what you said about you know you just never know where something's going to lead, and it it sounds like you've always been really cognizant of how you're showing up and where you're showing up, and that's everything from like literally how you're typing stuff out in a chat in Clubhouse, or like how you walk into a room and how you present yourself and how you you know you engage with people, so like that is so important, and it really is a a marathon. And I think something that's now come up with a few guests that I learned in racing and pitching sponsorship is, you know, for people who are going after those partnerships and going after companies, you 100% should do it. But so often, like a reason for rejection or reason might not work out has absolutely nothing to do with you, right? Like it could be that the brand campaign is geared in another direction, or the decision maker just doesn't like what you're doing, and it's not you specifically; it's just right then. And I like what you said about staying on the brand because I do think if, like, if you're emailing back and forth, let's say, and they say, "Hey, not now. You can either one ask like, "Hey, is it okay if I follow up in a year? or just like in a year or two, reach back out and say, "Hey, it didn't work then. I'm doing this new thing now. So I think, I think it's so important. Sounds like you're doing this to like keep track of who everyone you reach out to, everyone who shows interest, and if it's not right now, it could be a later thing, which is so powerful. Oh yeah, and like I highly recommend for those who are trying to stay on top of like who's still within companies to either do regular kind of press releases here and there, just to kind of see like oh this email just bounced and you're just kind of like oh bing this person no longer works here. So you go back on LinkedIn. You're like, where did this person go? You're just like, oh, okay, so they went to this company. Maybe I can now reconnect with them there since I had this good relationship with them at this place. You know, maybe we can do something in another company. You just never know. You never know. And LinkedIn has come up with so many people as well. Yeah, just because like I think I they're clearly doing something right. So shout out to LinkedIn if you want to partner with the pod. It's like it's so cool. Yeah, on a professional basis, and also too like if you're going to conferences, for instance, and you meet a couple CMOs, and it's just like, hey, the easiest place either is for them to have like a face to the name, and it's much easier to connect on LinkedIn, I feel like on a professional level than for me to be like, hey, let's connect on Instagram. Yeah, you know, a lot of creators have talked to me how they're like, oh, we've started some partnerships on Instagram. I just haven't had as much success on that platform. I think it's a lower level tier sometimes when you are reaching out to somebody who's just running the social platform itself. Where I do think for me, like when I am contacting individuals at these brands, like I'm going very high up at you know C level versus starting at a low scale kind of social media you know person? Yeah. Well, and I think also it's like different platforms will work differently for different people. Like if you're. Like, I would assume like if you're a big, you know, community influence influencer where Instagram happens to be a really big platform for you, then a brand's DMs might be the right channel. Like to your point, if you're, it sounds like you're what you're pitching and offering is kind of a multi-touch, multi-pronged engagement that maybe could start there. Also, typically. is a for what I'm typically asking for. It's a higher level person that's going to be signing off on those projects that I'm interested in. So it's much easier for me to work my way from the top. Yeah, and then if they need to structure it and resegment me to a different division, then they'll do that. But at least I know that I've started with that person who I know is the decision maker. Yeah. Versus kind of wasting time and really like working my way up that ladder, trying to find the the right person to do the sign off. Totally. And it sounds like to that point to be able to kind of clearly when you're reaching out, something about your profile and how you're reaching out has that authority, and I think that's so important for people to fine tune as to how you have your voice heard. And it goes back to what you were talking about. You never know where something's going to lead. Like being intentional about what your digital footprint is. What does your LinkedIn look like? What is your website? You can't have anything outdated. Like I think that's something where I've been surprised as like if you're gonna let something go, then maybe just take it down. Unless you have you AI'd yourself before? That's always fun. Oh yeah, AI myself saying about you. I've been also getting Google alerts on myself since I was like in college, and that was before, just because like I wanted to know, especially when I was actively racing and I was on the show Survivor, and it wasn't my finest performance. And so, like, kind of seeing where that came up and just being aware of what was out there. I think knowledge is power. So, yeah, because you have to think about okay, if somebody doesn't know who I am, yeah, what what would they be looking for? Yeah, you know, what are they intrigued by? What are they interested in? And you know, again, going back to that whole search engine, like I've made sure that this channel is going to circulate when somebody is looking for women in sneakers, because that is the other thing. Is sometimes you know those inbounds? How are these brands finding me? Yeah, you know, and and making sure that no matter what somebody is looking for, they're going to come across your content constantly. Yeah, you know, yeah, and so a lot of the time when I do start these conversations, the best thing I want to hear is, "I've seen you before. I've heard about you before. So, how are you doing with that with your channel to make sure that it shows up in those in those search engines and in the AIs? I think again, going back to the fact that a lot of creators are not creating the same type of content that I'm putting out there, so I think not being competitive with the type of product that everybody's already posting on because you get kind of lost in that bubble. Like if everybody is doing a Travis Scott and they've got 200 videos, and then I'm doing like a general release samba color and bubblegum pink, and I'm the only one doing that. You know, it's a lot easier for somebody to type in that specific sneaker and come across my content. But again, when you are one of the very few females on that platform, which you know, I always tell people this: Google owns YouTube. So, who do you think is going to technically be like really surfacing to the top when it comes to video content, especially long form content? Yeah, you know, there's not very much competition out there, and and I get it because you know in sneakers, I always say it's like you have to earn the right to the table when you have a conversation because people are very gatekeeper esque when it comes to the seeker community, so you really have to earn the right to sit there and and talk about a shoe, which is crazy to think about. But you know, I had to go through a lot of obstacles and a lot of beating down of you know people saying, "Oh, who does she think she is? Yeah, she she doesn't know what she's talking about. You haven't been collecting this long, or you don't have enough knowledge here and there. So a lot of it had to do with proving myself to even get into the reins of being able to talk about it and being accepted. But again, yeah, I think just understanding, like when you're searching for something, it's almost like you know my name. Like I have a pretty common name. I've realized I don't know when a bunch of Marissa were born, but there was a Marissa year where everybody was named Marissa. I swear, but I have a very kind of common name in a sense, and you know, it's almost like if there's 1000s of Marissa Hills and somebody's researching Marissa Hill, like how do you stand out from these other Marissas? Yeah, you know, you've got to figure out a way to create enough content out there where it's registering you in all of these different places. Again, huge part is being on multiple platforms, and you know it's just driving from all of them information and putting you at the top. Yeah, and are you focusing on written written content to accompany the video content and? Like for the scraping that models do, yeah, yeah. I do think that you know being able to have those different capabilities and those skills for sure also amplifies us above other creators. When I pitch them, like, listen, like I can do an editorial piece for you, I can do a video piece for you, I can chop this up and do shorts, I can do photos for you, if you'd like. You know, just having that ala car option, I think, really separates you from other creators that are in your space. So when you're able to say, like, I have a multitude of things, I'm multifaceted. So just pick and choose what you want. That written element, I think, also just gives a little bit better of a background, I guess you could say, a more intellectual sense. You know, even though I I hate to say it, but it's like you know people have definitely transitioned a lot more to video content. But there's something about written pieces that when I talk about you know writing editorial pieces, it just gives me the upper hand. I think a lot more than saying that I'm just a content creator that puts videos out there. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. So something that we haven't talked about as much, but I I said in the intro is that you have done modeling and acting as well. And so I was curious if there were any specific things you learned from those careers that are now helping you as a businesswoman who is also like on camera still. Yeah, modeling is. I've been doing modeling for over a decade. I actually started modeling later in my career. Typically, like a lot of my modeling friends started when they were you know little teenagers. Yeah, I waited till I graduated from college. I actually was on about to be on America's Next Top Model, but I auditioned during my volleyball season, and my coach was just like, "Yeah, this is a. But that's pretty like one of the other. I know, but and it's tough. And yeah, when you have a sport that you're so dedicated to, I think you miss out on some things. But especially full ride scholarship, you're like, oh yeah, we don't mess with that. So I look back and I'm like, I made the right decision. But it's so cool you got to audition. Yeah, it was that was very stressful. I bet many auditions to to make it to that season, but just cool to know that I could have could have done it if I I really wanted to. Yeah. But fast forward, you know, later after I graduated, I was just like, you know what? Maybe I do want to try this. And my roommate decided to like do photos for me. She's like, you have to model. I'm sorry, I'm not taking no for an answer. And then fast forward to meeting Tyra Banks in Seattle. I was like at this restaurant. She grabs my hand. She's like, don't I know you? And she's like, yeah. Like I auditioned for your show. She was with her mom on a book tour, and it was so funny because she's just like, "What are you waiting for? You know, like you need to leave this place. You need to go and and model and do this like as a career. So that kind of like sparked me to pick up my stuff and and move to LA. And it's funny because I actually signed with LA Models, which was her first modeling agency. Yeah, but you know, modeling has really changed over time, especially with you know social media and things like that. Because I do think that it's just diversified what a model is, and AI is also the scary part of what it's doing to the industry. But I do think that modeling was kind of similar in a sense to like rates of what a creator would be getting paid and contracts and things like that are very similar with deliverables. Yeah, except you know I'm kind of stepping in without that third party agency really running and understanding that side of things. But I think on a professional level, of course, you know working with teams and understanding their objectives on deliverables of what we're trying to achieve on a photo shoot has definitely set me up for success completely. When it comes to understanding like what a brand wants, yeah, you know, Sketchers was one of my very first clients I modeled for, which is pretty crazy to think that now I'm you know working with them in a different capacity. Yeah, you know, but that was my very like one of my very first jobs I booked when I was with LA Models, living in LA. Realized that what a full circle moment wasn't that crazy? So cool! It's so crazy to think about, but yeah, I mean, I I don't even think I would have thought about how social media would have changed, and that would have been a career opportunity at the time, well, it wasn't like it wasn't. I mean, we were doing cat videos back then and making fun of ourselves, me and my friends. So I was just like, wait, I could get paid off of this, like really make this a full time, you know, thing. But I think for sure, modeling also just working with the brands and those partnerships, you know, I also have been fortunate enough to be able to model and turn some of my jobs into things I'm doing on the side as well. So if I am modeling with a client, I also can pitch them now and like, hey, I also do this on the side, and they're like, really? And we've turned that into you know extra business on top of everything. But you know, acting kind of same world. Going back to what you were saying, like you kind of have to be at the right place at the right time too. Understanding that mindset of, you know, being told no a million times, which happens to you as an actor, happens to you as a model, like has nothing to do with you. Like they're looking for a specific look, and if you do not match that look, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. So I do think that I got the tough skin to really like work through those no's of you know okay on to the next, and it doesn't diminish your self worth, value, or what you know you can bring. And so I think that's, I think it's a really important thing to learn. And you know something I say is like similarly like with racing, there's one winner and everyone else is a loser, so you're much more likely to lose. And for sponsorship, you're much more likely to get a no than a yes. And to deal with that from a young age is, I think, quite a gift to then show that you can be stronger. At the start, it sucks. It sucks. I mean, it's all fun. Yeah. But as a, I'm in my mid 30s, and in looking back, it's like, well, some of the shittiest moments that I had, where I was just like, "Why is this not working? When I'm sobbing because something didn't work out, it like it helps you later, and hopefully life is long, so you kind of think about how much that grows. So we're gonna have to wrap up shortly, but I have a niche question for you before we get into our closing statement. So I mentioned that you're very active in the film space, and I've mentioned all the associations you're part of. But one that caught my attention is that you are a Rotten Tomatoes certified film critic. So, how does one become a Rotten Tomatoes certified critic, and what does that involve? Yeah, another thing I never thought it would be. No, that's an amazing resume. Forever, but actually, when I started the media outlet, I think that became the objective. And and working with a lot of PR teams, they were asking like, "Are you rotten certified? I'm just like, "Huh, didn't think about that. I'm going to look into that. So to be rotten certified, they do have just like a couple qualifications that you're required to have, which is two years of writing, and it needs to be 100 reviews, minimum 600 words, and of course it needs to be at a certain writing level. So you basically submit that, and they read through all of your reviews. They look for consistency. Typically, they want three to four reviews a month, so that's like your average that you just need to have in order to stay a rotten critic. Yeah, but that's essentially how I became a certified critic. Cool. The more you know, and the last big thing before the last segment. So you have a big event coming up in October, and that is the Dynasty Sports Film Festival. Can you talk to me a little bit about that? Yeah, it's so it's so crazy to think like how the world works because I was just thinking about this earlier today. But two different guys or YouTubers actually years ago did profiles on me, and one both of them actually in the future, they were like, "You're going to have like your own event of some kind, and they were like, "It's going to be some kind of complex con or whatever. And I was just like, "Yeah, yeah, whatever. Just put it in the back of my mind, not thinking, you know, what would come to fruition. But fast forward to last year, I was actually speaking at Idea Week, which is a conference held in South Bend, Indiana, for entrepreneurs, and you know, I was just standing outside talking to this guy who runs Ideas Week. It's so funny because he's basically like the mayor of that area, but not really. And he was giving me a tour of the city and everything, and I was just looking. I was like, Chris, like, man, this is the perfect location for a film festival. I mean, just it has the most amazing grid, the most beautiful theaters and venues, and everything's walking distance. And of course, Notre Dame is located there, where the iconic Rudy took place. Which you know, when I was pitching to my team this concept and idea-it's just kind of racking through our brains, like no one's ever done a sports film festival before. I was just like, come to think of it, actually, yeah, no one. I mean, I think maybe they've attempted to in the past, but no one's ever executed one to last a long time. And I've been going to film festivals for years now, and I was just like, "This is this is the place. We've got to do it here. It's so charming and kind of has this Sundance feel, almost like South by in Austin before it became as big as it was. So you know, we decided like, we've got to do this. It's never been done before. Even a lot of my athlete friends, like most of them have their production companies set up now. Instead of becoming like your typical broadcaster, now they want to be, you know, in the production world behind the scenes, creating movies and TV series and shows. So that's where just like we've got to give them accolades and awards somehow. And I specifically for sports, I just I feel like it gets. Lost when it comes to these indie film festivals, they're not really the tentpole type of films that they really highlight. They kind of become the back burner. Like Sue Bird was at Tribeca a few years with Dawn Porter, who was a producer on a couple of her projects, and I was just thinking to myself, like this should be getting so much more praise and so much more when it comes to highlighting these type of films, so that's where I'm like, we're going to create a space where we can really highlight these incredible stories. There's something also just about sports films in general, where in an indie film fest, sometimes it's a little Debbie Downerish. You're leaving a lot of the films are very sad, and I want people to leave this film festival feeling ignited and inspired to go and like do something great, and that's something that I love about sports films. Every time you watch one, at the end you're like inspired to do something to be better, you know. Oh, and for anyone listening, like your face just lit up so much, so it's so clear that this is a passion point. And I think what's also really cool is now, obviously, there's this huge surge of interest in women in sports and women's sports, and so if that can play in as well to help amplify amplify even more girls and women who are in sports, I think it's so important. And I'm sure you agree that like sports are such a foundational part of confidence and feelings of self worth. And to share those stories, I'm so excited to see what you do with it, and it's like so crazy to think too. Like if you think about all of your years in life, you know, and stages you've been in your life, what were films, you know, that really sparked your interest to do certain things? And every time it goes back to sports film for me, I was just like loving basketball. That was the film that made me like think I want to get a scholarship. Like I want to go d1. I want to play a sport in college of some kind, and even like little giants with icebox. You know, girl playing football. I was just thinking to myself, like I could play any sport because this girl can. You know, so yeah, there's just something, something that I feel like everyone generationally can really tap into, and it unites everyone. Sports are so unifying. Yeah, and you're seeing that like in real life, like in today's day when there's so much so much negativity in the world. Sports, like the fact people came together for World Cup, and we've got Olympics coming up, and just everything. So I totally agree. And good luck. I'm sure that is no small feat from an operations logistics perspective. But you clearly have a great team behind you, and I'm really excited to see how it works out. To get into the closing segment, I like to ask each of my guests to finish the sentence if I'm honest, and it's completely open-ended, but it can be viewed as parting wisdom for our listeners. So, how would you complete the sentence if I'm honest, if I'm honest, live every day like it was your last. Yeah, life is precious. Yeah, and nothing's guaranteed. You know, I I actually lost my mom two years ago to ovarian cancer, so I always look at life in a sense where I'm living it for the two of us. And so, you know, every time I accomplish something, it's like we're doing it as a team together. That's such a beautiful, beautiful perspective and and mindset to have. And I'm sorry for your loss. And I'm sure she is exceptionally proud of you. Feels a little weird to then go into a rapid fire segment because you ended you ended so so poignant, beautiful. No, thank you so much, and thank you for sharing that with us. But I will end on the rapid fire. If you are honest, what sneaker are you obsessed with right now? Ooh, definitely anything ballet core. Okay. Yeah. So ballet sneakers are my jam right now. Okay. And anything that has some bling on it, I'm all for it. I love that. If you're not wearing a sneaker, what kind of shoe are you wearing? Ooh, definitely Crocs. Okay, I have those Croc cowboy boots that are my favorite, and people always stop and look because it's such a crazy. I'm gonna have to look this up. Yeah, it's literally it looks like a cowboy boot, but it's a Croc. Wow, amazing! What is your most used app right now? Ooh, Moshe's app. I mean, anything with YouTube, probably. Yeah. What is your morning beverage? Ooh, coffee, cold brew, anything cold. I cannot drink coffee hot. I'm so strangely. I have to have my coffee cold. Interesting. Yes, I will drink cold all year round. Doesn't matter how cold it is outside. There we go. And New York does get cold, especially this past winter. Aisle or window seat on an airplane. Oh, window for sure. I'm a sleeper. Okay. I will not bother you to go to the bathroom. I promise. That's like a national emergency if I have to get out. Okay, good to know. Serious, good to know. And then last, if you're honest, what's something that you're grateful for right now? Grateful to just have the opportunity to pretty much do anything and everything I've always dreamed of doing. That's so cool, and what a wonderful. Way to close out this this conversation, Marissa. I will link everything in the description. But where would you like people to find you? Gosh, there's so many platforms. I know we're gonna link a lot of platforms. I know, but Shade ShadeTV is my YouTube channel. ShadeTV is also my X channel. ShadeTV247 is my TikTok. ShadeTV is my snap. ShadeTV247 is Instagram, and then Marissa E Hill Instagram is just like my main channel. Perfect. Well, we will link absolutely everything, and thank you so much for coming on today and for being honest with us. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure. Team, thank you for joining us on If I'm Honest with Julia Landauer. I hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed recording it with our guest. And if you like the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform to get new episodes when they drop. It would also be a huge help if you can leave a rating on that page, write a comment, and share the episode with someone who you think might enjoy it. As always, thank you for letting us be honest with you, and I'll see you next week.